Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

I agree, the detour of the LRT onto Burnhamthorpe/Living Arts/Rathburn to CCTT is totally unnecessary, as most routes that serve the City Centre Transit Terminal (CCTT) already intersect with Hurontario elsewhere. And of course the BRT will intersect with Hurontario as well. The CCTT was located where it was so that it could connect to the BRT. The LRT won't need that. Plus, the terminal is already way overcrowded as is. Therefore, the LRT serving CCTT is unnecessary.

They would only need to extend a few routes to serve the LRT station and new smaller bus loop at City Centre and Rathburn, like routes 6, 9 and 61, which could just stop on-street only at CCTT, freeing up some much needed space in the terminal.
 
doady said:
I agree, the detour of the LRT onto Burnhamthorpe/Living Arts/Rathburn to CCTT is totally unnecessary, as most routes that serve the City Centre Transit Terminal (CCTT) already intersect with Hurontario elsewhere. And of course the BRT will intersect with Hurontario as well. The CCTT was located where it was so that it could connect to the BRT. The LRT won't need that. Plus, the terminal is already way overcrowded as is. Therefore, the LRT serving CCTT is unnecessary.

They would only need to extend a few routes to serve the LRT station and new smaller bus loop at City Centre and Rathburn, like routes 6, 9 and 61, which could just stop on-street only at CCTT, freeing up some much needed space in the terminal.
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The only problem having the line only on City Centre Dr going over the 403 is the distance to the Bus terminal to connect to other routes like 9, 66, 61, 28, 6, 67, 110 and 91.

Doing the loop is still wasting rider time like they currently do on the 19 & 26. I have already challenge staff/team on that.

There is talk that the line could go down Duke of York and you are going to have an issues with the current Roundabout as well the other 3 for the line.

What is this line going to service on either DoY or LAC when there is very little there in the first place now or down the road?

The LAC complex is still a white elephant after all these years since it open and drains money out of the city coppers to run it.

Even after Parkside Village get built, ridership will not be that high for the line. The free Shuttle buses carry very few riders at a great lost got cancel twice especially when riders refused to pay $.50 or $1 fare at the end to try to cover some operation cost for this area.

I have stated numerous time to council that a new terminal is needed to handle 125,000 riders a day since 2004. It needs to be in the north-east corner of the parking lot where the stand along buildings are.

OMERS are the white elephant in the city with Sq One Mall, as they forced the city to not built the ROW on Rathburn for the BRT, let alone for the LRT.
 
Drum, what's your opinion on how we should deal with the LRT terminus in downtown Brampton? I've heard basically every possible solution.
 
DKsan said:
Drum, what's your opinion on how we should deal with the LRT terminus in downtown Brampton? I've heard basically every possible solution.
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I say you run it down Main and stop north of the bridge to allow for the future extension north to the city limit.

On street parking remove, as well no left hand turn in the city centre. Single lane mix traffic with wider sidewalks, as there is not enough room for a full ROW.

If and when redevelopment take place in the city centre, you need to retain the many local building to keep the look and feel of the old section. This will not increase ridership that much since most will either use GO or 501.

At some point, Brampton is going to have to deal with a larger terminal as headway decrease over time.

Don't support the various options of going west or east of Main, as well going into the Brampton station.

At some point, the 3rd track for the Georgetown/Kitchener has to go in to deal with increase service by both GO and CN. That will have an effect on the current station as well the transit terminal. Main is a lot wider north of the bridge to put the stop in there and not worry about the current station area. There is enough room for the 3 tracks, but it requires the station to be move north 100% for the north side.
 
I think people really need to forget the idea of LRT north of Downtown Brampton. Main/Hurontario is the 3rd or 4th busiest transit corridor in Brampton, at best. Even LRT to downtown was a stretch, let alone to Valleywod or whatever. Just have it loop through downtown and forget about any future extension.
 
doady said:
I think people really need to forget the idea of LRT north of Downtown Brampton. Main/Hurontario is the 3rd or 4th busiest transit corridor in Brampton, at best. Even LRT to downtown was a stretch, let alone to Valleywod or whatever. Just have it loop through downtown and forget about any future extension.
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As a Bramptonian, I am watching with interest and concern over the funding and design of this project for precisely that reason. I honestly fail to see the value (from a purely Brampton perspective) of this project. It will add very little (anything) to the transit-convenience of people in Brampton.....not questioning the Mississauga part of it but not sure the cost of this thing, relative to the minor transit improvement it offers over Zum) is worth the investment.

We all want shiny new transit, we all want it in our area and not the other guy's.....but we have to take a step back and look at all the needs over all of the region and this is a case where you have to wonder if the incremental transit improvement from moving from Zum to LRT is worth the investment necessary for that stretch in Brampton.

If (and not saying it should) the thing was gonna run right up Hurontario to, say, an expanded transit hub on Sandalwood then you could look at a bigger set of benefits to Brampton (not saying those would be worth it) but as it stands now it is very large investment in a minor updgrade (service wise relative to what's there now) that will be of little benefit to Brampton.....not sure how it became a Peel project when it really is a Mississauga project.
 
I think extending it north of DT is a waste myself, but only from my own observations of the 502 Main. It only ever gets truly, horrifying squeezed and pack at the Theatre Lane stop southbound. Like a mob of 20 people at that stop, and maybe 1 or 2 people at each of the stops north of that. That load plops off at Theatre Lane when going northbound too.
 
DKsan said:
I think extending it north of DT is a waste myself, but only from my own observations of the 502 Main. It only ever gets truly, horrifying squeezed and pack at the Theatre Lane stop southbound. Like a mob of 20 people at that stop, and maybe 1 or 2 people at each of the stops north of that. That load plops off at Theatre Lane when going northbound too.
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What I don't see the need for is replacing/upgrading the 502 to LRT southbound either. The Zum project has been (IMO) highly successful and has resulted in a much better, efficient, BT along the routes that are served by Zum and those that intersect with Zum. Is there really a need to invest significant dollars into a LRT in Brampton? One that, as someone pointed out, is not the busiest transit corridor in Brampton and only for part of it? Would expansion, incremental improvement, of Zum not be a better/more efficient investment of scarce transit dollars?
 
TOareaFan said:
As a Bramptonian, I am watching with interest and concern over the funding and design of this project for precisely that reason. I honestly fail to see the value (from a purely Brampton perspective) of this project. It will add very little (anything) to the transit-convenience of people in Brampton.....not questioning the Mississauga part of it but not sure the cost of this thing, relative to the minor transit improvement it offers over Zum) is worth the investment.
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Sorry, I meant Main St as a corridor is kinda weak, which is why LRT north of Steeles is sort of excessive (and north of Downtown even more excessive), but LRT serving a hub like Downtown Brampton I think will have a major benefit to both people in both cities.

If I remember correctly, the travel time they predict between Port Credit and Downtown Brampton for this LRT is around 40 minutes. Currently the same trip takes 80-90 minutes.

I think to connect Downtown Brampton is important even if Main St itself is not a great corridor. But for Brampton, the LRT's emphasis should be connecting the downtown, not serving Main St.
 
doady said:
Sorry, I meant Main St as a corridor is kinda weak, which is why LRT north of Steeles is sort of excessive (and north of Downtown even more excessive), but LRT serving a hub like Downtown Brampton I think will have a major benefit to both people in both cities.

If I remember correctly, the travel time they predict between Port Credit and Downtown Brampton for this LRT is around 40 minutes. Currently the same trip takes 80-90 minutes.

I think to connect Downtown Brampton is important even if Main St itself is not a great corridor. But for Brampton, the LRT's emphasis should be connecting the downtown, not serving Main St.
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Not sure how many people in Brampton are, really, that interested in travelling from Downtown Brampton to Port Credit though.....probably even less are interested in travelling from Port Credit to DT Brampton....:)
 
It's not about people travelling from end to end though. The corridor itself has differential points. Main travel in the corridor from Brampton would be getting to Shopper's World (connecting to Steeles corridor for either Humber/Sheridan or to jobs/shopping at SW) and to Square One, again for shopping, work, and the major GO Bus Terminal at Square One. Again, not many people between Sandalwood Loop and DT (though that could change with the introduction of the 505 Bovaird next year, though I doubt it) leg.

That same argument is the same applied from LRT opponents in KW, who argue who would go from one mall to another mall on LRT is not worth it, when ignoring that people aren't mostly travelling the entire corrior. It's not about the entire corridor, but serving segments and interwined legs that people may have.
 
DKsan said:
It's not about people travelling from end to end though. The corridor itself has differential points. Main travel in the corridor from Brampton would be getting to Shopper's World (connecting to Steeles corridor for either Humber/Sheridan or to jobs/shopping at SW) and to Square One, again for shopping, work, and the major GO Bus Terminal at Square One. Again, not many people between Sandalwood Loop and DT (though that could change with the introduction of the 505 Bovaird next year, though I doubt it) leg.

That same argument is the same applied from LRT opponents in KW, who argue who would go from one mall to another mall on LRT is not worth it, when ignoring that people aren't mostly travelling the entire corrior. It's not about the entire corridor, but serving segments and interwined legs that people may have.
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That, really, is precisely the point I am making.......I am pretty sure that you are correct and that the majority of people boarding the 502 in DT Brampton are headed for, either, SW terminal or Sq1 terminal to, either, shift to an east west route or work in one of those nodes/areas (more likely in the case of Sq1) and that the traffic is very adequately served by Zum or (at most) an upgrade to Zum. For that kind of shorter trip, the incremental improvement in transit times between LRT and BRT (or BRTlite) are less.

If, however, the majority of the riders were going to Sq1 to transfer to a MiWay bus that took them to Port Credit then the whole discussion of 40 minutes versus 80 - 90 minutes gains some relevance.....as it is, though, I think the incremental improvement in trip time that the Brampton leg of this LRT presents is not likely worth it and it would be a better plan (assuming the Mississauga leg was going ahead anyway) to stop this at the arbitrary line that is the border between the municipalities and work on having a fairly smooth transfer point between Zum and LRT for Bramptonians........this would also allow you to short turn some (all?) the 502s at the LRT and devote more of those resources to improving the service within Brampton.

Again, I am not sure what the cost differential would be on containing the LRT to just Mississauga but I bet you whatever that number is it is fairly large and the gain on average/normal trip times would not justify it.
 
TOareaFan said:
Not sure how many people in Brampton are, really, that interested in travelling from Downtown Brampton to Port Credit though.....probably even less are interested in travelling from Port Credit to DT Brampton....:)
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It just highlights the problem of integrating transit in Mississauga and Brampton, I think. A bus would take 80-90 minutes, which is too long for a single route. LRT would only be around 40 minutes, which is acceptable.

So much Mississauga/Brampton bus service ends at Derry, so to have a corridor where travel time is cut in half but a transfer eliminated could make a huge difference. I live just north of Britannia, and even I find it difficult to take transit into Brampton as it is.

Also I think the LRT would not be complete unless it serves Downtown Brampton and its GO station. Connecting all those hubs, and the three GO stations (five stations, if you count the Mississauga and 407 Transitways), it makes sense.
 
doady said:
It just highlights the problem of integrating transit in Mississauga and Brampton, I think. A bus would take 80-90 minutes, which is too long for a single route. LRT would only be around 40 minutes, which is acceptable.

So much Mississauga/Brampton bus service ends at Derry, so to have a corridor where travel time is cut in half but a transfer eliminated could make a huge difference. I live just north of Britannia, and even I find it difficult to take transit into Brampton as it is.

Also I think the LRT would not be complete unless it serves Downtown Brampton and its GO station. Connecting all those hubs, and the three GO stations (five stations, if you count the Mississauga and 407 Transitways), it makes sense.
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We'll have to agree to disagree.....I am not sure on the value of connecting hubs/transit lines if there is no identifiable need/want for passengers to transfer between those.....what is the value (as an example) of connecting the Milton line at Cooksville and the KW line at Brampton?
 
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