Register123
Active Member
There is nothing remotely "official" on all this speculation. It's not even a formal proposal.
Toronto Cumberland Square | 253.92m | 75s | KingSett Capital | Giannone Petricone
There is nothing remotely "official" on all this speculation. It's not even a formal proposal.
diminutive
Active Member
Probably because most light industrial lands in Toronto lost their economic justification long before residential redevelopment. If there was still a thriving industry of lightbulb manufacturing or whatever there probably would be much more hesitance in converting land use. As it is though most of these sites' original occupants went bankrupt or decamped for overseas long before redevelopment. The choice was more between conversions to lofts, conversion to parking lots and just leaving them abandoned.
In Toronto, subway accessible office space is very much in demand.
There is noooooo way this project is economically feasible. Office vacancy rates are near historic lows while condos are, if not oversupplied, hardly in short supply. In such a hot market for office space it can't possibly make sense to demolish a perfectly functional and large office building with >1000$/sf premium condos, especially with so many similar buildings just finished or under construction.
This very much seems like a case of 'if it's not broke...'
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
I'd argue the current "success" of Yonge & Bloor. The area is now pretty much a dead zone after 8 or 9pm save for the strip joint and the theatre further down, for the few months a year that it actually operates. Yonge & Bloor's days of being a truly vibrant, mixed use area by day and night are long gone.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Its a shopping street; you can't expect it to be busy 24hrs a day.
whatever
Senior Member
It's a bustling area by day, much moreso than something like King/Bay in my opinion, but is that a major knock against the intersection if it gets quieter at night? I agree Yonge and Bloor is no longer nearly as interesting as it once was, but I also think replacing the office tower with condos will make the area *less* vibrant, not more.
More entertainment options might enliven it, but I'm not sure what would really work. I don't think the market is there for another cinema (look at how many have closed around there), but with the affluence and hotels nearby I could see a nightclub or two doing well. In fairness I found Michigan Avenue to be pretty dull after-hours as well, so maybe it's just the nature of that sort of district.
More entertainment options might enliven it, but I'm not sure what would really work. I don't think the market is there for another cinema (look at how many have closed around there), but with the affluence and hotels nearby I could see a nightclub or two doing well. In fairness I found Michigan Avenue to be pretty dull after-hours as well, so maybe it's just the nature of that sort of district.
fedplanner
Active Member
The office tower isn't going anywhere. I was unable to find the occupancy rate for 2 Bloor West, but Oxford's office portfolio occupancy rate as a whole is 93 percent for 2012. I can't see how it would make economic or political sense to demolish it as Oxford would lose a steady income stream and would be directly contrary to the city's strong desire to retention employment uses, creating a lot of ill will. On a side note, Pinnacle Development also went through the land severance process at the Committee of Adjustments and the OMB for 1 Yonge St. before submitting plans for their mega development.
The old development proposal for Cumberland Terrance consisted of two residential towers at 48 and 36 storeys while maintaining the 2 Bloor West office tower. Oxford received planning permission from the city back in 2010 to construct the new towers. A lot has changed since then with Morguard's proposal for 83 storeys at 50 Bloor and Minto's proposal for the Cumberland street parking garage for 69 and 55 storeys.
taal
Senior Member
Dead zone during the night has nothing to do with the amount of office or residential space I'll argue, rather the lack of entertainment venues / restaurants (if you think about it on Bloor there are so few).
That can easily be changed and is not at all related to the commercial elements of the area. Rather the office space is what keeps the area bustling during the weekdays. Without out it would be much more dead 9-5 5 days a week.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
That's exactly the problem here whatever. The nightclubs & pubs are gone (all but one or two), the late-night record (CD) & bookshops are gone, no pinball joints or peepshows, the cinemas are gone and with the cinemas went the late night eateries. The Varsity does well but it mostly serves an older crowd who gets in their car, subway or walks home after seeing a film, they generally don't grab a drink or coffee afterward at night. Btw, the Plaza & Uptown closed because they couldn't be made wheelchair accessible, as mandated by the Ontario Human Rights Commission. Putting a cinema complex into 1 Bloor was an idea that died early into the development of that project because they couldn't negotiate a reasonable lease, which is really unfortunate for this area.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
from the UT article
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/news/201...e-sky-high-2-bloor-west-redevelopment-concept
"The architectsAlliance renderings of 2 Bloor West are from before the plan for the pedestrian mews coalesced, and before the property owners started cooperating en masse. Jeff Hess, Senior Vice President for Development at Oxford Properties told me that they represented at one point one of several possible programmes for the site—a concept—but that what will eventually be built will in all likelihood be quite different from what is seen here."
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/news/201...e-sky-high-2-bloor-west-redevelopment-concept
"The architectsAlliance renderings of 2 Bloor West are from before the plan for the pedestrian mews coalesced, and before the property owners started cooperating en masse. Jeff Hess, Senior Vice President for Development at Oxford Properties told me that they represented at one point one of several possible programmes for the site—a concept—but that what will eventually be built will in all likelihood be quite different from what is seen here."
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Would have loved to see aA reuse this faux-X bracing motif elsewhere, preferably for their office tower.
AoD
AoD
taal
Senior Member
You should ask on what their stance with the office tower is.
You know what though given the fact that city report wasn't that old, this proposal is probably the really old plan.
So here's a question, how much money do developers waste paying companies to come up with site plans / renderings that never come to be ? : )
Taal, Oxford was not willing to comment on their plans for the site other than to confirm that the images shown were strictly a blue-sky exercise, one of several Oxford had made.
In terms of wasting money… if you have an important site, and you want to get the redevelopment right, you're going to consider many options. Do you consider it a waste then to prepare more than one plan? I'm afraid that the one plan approach has likely produced many of the poorer projects in this city when the developers should have invited more input.
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In terms of wasting money… if you have an important site, and you want to get the redevelopment right, you're going to consider many options. Do you consider it a waste then to prepare more than one plan? I'm afraid that the one plan approach has likely produced many of the poorer projects in this city when the developers should have invited more input.
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taal
Senior Member
Point well taken, with a larger site like this I imagine its unavoidable as well.
devjohnson
Active Member
Not really sure where to post this, but the CIBC logo atop of Two Bloor West has been dark for around two weeks now. As of yesterday, the CIBC sign has been taken down.
