Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[EnviroTO]

ON page 7 of the METROLINX report it says that Keele will be a "TERMINAL STATION." WHat does that mean? maybe I am just too tired to think!

It most likely means it is going to be the end of the line for a while and likely considerations are being made regarding how a large number of bus routes will end there. An alternate possibility is that it is the only station which will have a bus terminal which hopefully isn't the case because the Don Mills bus terminal made sense.

More interesting is that they need to run at 2 minute headways with 3-car trains for 2031 to meet projected demand. Please tell me they aren't building something that they project will after only 10 years need to run on a similar frequency to the Yonge line to meet demand. That means 15 to 20 years the thing is already maxed out. To me that means they should be building it as a subway.

 

[allabootmatt]

The first construction contract - for the TBM launch area - was awarded last week.

http://www2.ttc.ca/html/awards.htm

A $25.5 million contract for the EGLINTON CROSSTOWN LRT WEST LAUNCH AREA to KENAIDAN CONTRACTING LTD.

I certainly hope the good people at Metrolinx are clever enough to get a great deal of contracts signed, preferably with large cancellation penalties, before the October election.

 

[W. K. Lis]

ON page 7 of the METROLINX report it says that Keele will be a "TERMINAL STATION." WHat does that mean? maybe I am just too tired to think!

A terminal station is one with crossover tracks (so trains can switch tracks to turn back) and sometimes pocket tracks to store trains temporary to turn back or to for emergency storage for disabled trains.

 

[nfitz]

In terms of the station design, it also means that if there is any chance that this will be a long-term terminal, they will have to make sure they design public washrooms.

 

[gweed123]

I certainly hope the good people at Metrolinx are clever enough to get a great deal of contracts signed, preferably with large cancellation penalties, before the October election.

Agreed 100%. Maybe include a few bonuses if the engineering group can get their project past a point of no-return before the election as well, so that Metrolinx can say "look, you can't cancel this project, it's too far along to be stopped now". But yes, I agree that they need to encorporate some large cancellation penalties into this. In fact, I would guess that the companies doing the construction would want them there too. If their work dissapears overnight, it would be nice to cover your costs, and then some.

 

[rbt]

More interesting is that they need to run at 2 minute headways with 3-car trains for 2031 to meet projected demand.

Southbound Yonge does not have capacity for an extra ~9,000 people transferring to southbound during morning rush. No amount of ATC or longer trains or even 7th car will give it that capacity; normal ridership growth north of Eglinton will be eating those capacity enhancements; particularly is Sheppard or the Yonge extension are built.

For the 9,000 number, I've used the assumption that 25% are going through at Yonge, 50% are transferring southbound, and 25% are transferring northbound. The only way this actually works if is Eglinton has diverted a substantion amount of east/west ridership on York Mills, Sheppard, Finch, etc. to North/South routes connecting to Eglinton. The Danforth ridership does not appear reduced

Any Yonge relief line Yonge will also relieve Eglinton and Danforth peak point ridership.

Yes, Eglinton will be busy but for it to be above capacity without Yonge being dangerously above capacity is very unlikely.

 

[gweed123]

Southbound Yonge does not have capacity for an extra ~9,000 people transferring to southbound during morning rush. No amount of ATC or longer trains or even 7th car will give it that capacity; normal ridership growth north of Eglinton will be eating those capacity enhancements; particularly is Sheppard or the Yonge extension are built.

For the 9,000 number, I've used the assumption that 25% are going through at Yonge, 50% are transferring southbound, and 25% are transferring northbound. The only way this actually works if is Eglinton has diverted a substantion amount of east/west ridership on York Mills, Sheppard, Finch, etc. to North/South routes connecting to Eglinton. The Danforth ridership does not appear reduced

Any Yonge relief line Yonge will also relieve Eglinton and Danforth peak point ridership.

Yes, Eglinton will be busy but for it to be above capacity without Yonge being severely above capacity is very unlikely.

I think eventually what will happen is people who are trying to transfer southbound onto Yonge will say "screw it, I'll just stay on the extra couple of stops and transfer at Eglinton West instead". Hopefully this will help distribute some of the load. As I've mentioned earlier, if one of the short-turns is extended to Glencairn, it'll basically mean every 2nd or 3rd train entering Eglinton West southbound will be empty.

 

[rbt]

I think eventually what will happen is people who are trying to transfer southbound onto Yonge will say "screw it, I'll just stay on the extra couple of stops and transfer at Eglinton West instead". Hopefully this will help distribute some of the load. As I've mentioned earlier, if one of the short-turns is extended to Glencairn, it'll basically mean every 2nd or 3rd train entering Eglinton West southbound will be empty.

It actually appears they've accounted for that. They show about roughly 50% of passengers going southbound from the East to be passing Yonge and transferring at Eglinton West. Wish re-affirms that Eglinton will not get this ridership without a lot of pain in other locations.

Solutions for Yonge line capacity like a DRL or high frequency Richmond Hill service (can a practical interchange be built?) will gut Eglinton ridership in the Yonge-DonMills peak point on Eglinton. The chance of a seat and a faster trip; few will pass it up unless they need to.

The peak point on the SRT replacement is much more interesting. They've projected a near quadroupling of ridership on that segment over today.

 

[gweed123]

It actually appears they've accounted for that. They show about roughly 50% of passengers going southbound from the East to be passing Yonge and transferring at Eglinton West. Wish re-affirms that Eglinton will not get this ridership without a lot of pain in other locations.

I don't doubt it. In order to be successful, Eglinton needs to have a lot of N-S routes to transfer onto. Just having 2 (3 if you count Kennedy) transfer points to downtown-bound trains isn't going to do it, especially when those two lines have little capacity space to absorb those riders.

Solutions for Yonge line capacity like a DRL or high frequency Richmond Hill service (can a practical interchange be built?) will gut Eglinton ridership in the Yonge-DonMills peak point on Eglinton. The chance of a seat and a faster trip; few will pass it up unless they need to.

Only semi-realistic way to do it is to route the Richmond Hill line around the west side of Don Mills instead of the east side and through the Don Valley. This does force it to run along CP tracks for a stretch though, and the interchange at Don Mills and Eglinton would be an interesting engineering feat. However, it still beats having a station in a valley underneath Eglinton.

The peak point on the SRT replacement is much more interesting. They've projected a near quadroupling of ridership on that segment over today.

That doesn't surprise me. Addition of a thru-service plus replacing a technology that many people in Scarborough dislike (for many reasons). There's quite a bit of latent demand on that route, especially once connections to STC are improved.

 

[rbt]

I don't doubt it. In order to be successful, Eglinton needs to have a lot of N-S routes to transfer onto. Just having 2 (3 if you count Kennedy) transfer points to downtown-bound trains isn't going to do it, especially when those two lines have little capacity space to absorb those riders.

Exactly, and if you add additional north/south interchanges then you significantly reduce peak point ridership on Eglinton. 3-cars will be plenty of train for a very long time.

 

[Solid Snake]

Eglinton LRT ready to launch

http://www.thestar.com/news/ttc/article/1017076--eglinton-lrt-ready-to-launch

Along Eglinton Ave., they’ve been waiting nearly 20 years for someone to replace the subway that former Premier Mike Harris cancelled in 1995.

This summer, that wait will finally be rewarded when the TTC starts digging the first tunneling shaft for the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) line.

The $8.2 billion provincially funded LRT will be wholly owned by Ontario and is slated for completion in 2020. Construction will begin around Black Creek Dr., where, next summer, the first of four enormous tunnel-boring machines will be launched from that pit.

The LRT will run about 20 kilometres underground to Kennedy station, where it will continue seamlessly above-ground for 6 kilometres on the route of what is now the Scarborough RT.

Most of the disruption from construction will be around stations and the shafts from which the tunneling machines will be launched and extracted.

Ontario Transportation Minister Kathleen Wynne and TTC chair Karen Stintz will be discussing the project at a public meeting from 7 to 8:30 p.m. Thursday, at the York Civic Centre Council Chamber, 2700 Eglinton Ave. W.

The Toronto Star asked Jack Collins, Metrolinx vice-president for rapid transit implementation, about the project:

Given the Eglinton line will run mostly underground, how does LRT differ from subway?

Subway trains have six cars. LRTs will be run in three-car trains.

“A subway train is about 145 metres long and we are 97 metres long. Because of that you can get more people in a subway. Capacity is a difference, but we’re sizing the capacity to meet the needs of the Eglinton line and future growth, and we don’t feel a subway is necessary,†Collins said.

The original LRT plan called for only an 11-kilometre tunnel in the middle. With the switch, the trains are now expected to travel at subway speeds, averaging 34 km/h versus 22 km/h. The trip between Jane and Kennedy will take about 25 minutes, rather than 45.

How many people will ride it?

Metrolinx estimates 12,000 riders an hour during rush hours through the busiest sections, east of Yonge. Projections west of Yonge are about half that.

“The scale coming from the east is much heavier in the peak hours,†Collins said. That’s because many SRT riders will now choose to stay on the Eglinton line rather than switch to the Bloor-Danforth subway.

Won’t so many riders getting off at Yonge over-burden that subway line, which is already at capacity?

Between the TTC’s new subway trains, which carry up to 10 per cent more riders, and a new computerized signaling system that will allow Yonge trains to run closer together, Yonge will have about 30 per cent more capacity in coming years.

“We think that will handle the additional people,†he said. “The Bloor-Danforth line actually gets some relief. People getting on downstream in the morning perhaps will now get a seat.â€

Will the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown open in sections or all at once, as is planned for the Spadina subway extension into York Region?

“Initially our thoughts were to open it all at once. The more we think about that, we may have a phased opening … There’s a lot of issues related to that. You have to have all the systems, the track in place, and how much will you have done?†Because the tunneling will begin in the west and move east, for example, it might be possible to begin service earlier between Black Creek and Laird.

What’s the plan for stations?

There will be a maximum of 26, about 800 metres apart in the middle section, farther apart in less-travelled areas. Underground stations will cost about $100 million each. Public consultations on station designs will take place in fall. Among the first to be designed are Eglinton West; Caledonia, where there’s a potential connection to GO’s Barrie line; Keele; Dufferin; Bathurst; Oakwood and Chaplin. Work is beginning on the complex task of reconfiguring Kennedy.

What happens to SRT riders while the line is converted to LRT?

The current plan is to shut down the SRT after the 2015 Pan Am Games, with a design and contractor ready to go. Riders would be bused until the LRT is completed — as soon as possible, probably about three years. “We could have a section on the Scarborough line that gets up and running before 2020 — from Scarborough Centre to Kennedy. Then you’d still have a forced transfer there initially, because we wouldn’t have that line finished, but at least you’d have the benefit of having that end up and running again and the additional capacity.â€

Will the LRT be driverless?

“The trains will have fully functional cabs. (They) may have somebody sitting in there as a customer ambassador, similar to the GO trains. But the actual acceleration, deceleration and braking will be computer-controlled, which is called Automatic Train Operation. If we ever come out to surface — we have that option with LRT, and (could) run on the surface to the airport at a future date — we would revert to operator control,†Collins said. “But initially weâ€re going to be underground or on an exclusive right-of-way out in Scarborough, so we’ll be on ATO.â€

 

[Dan416]

Gets my stamp of approval.

 

[Eug]

That 3 years of SRT --> bussing is gonna be painful, but then again if they can keep it down to 3 years, then that's OK. One just hopes it doesn't end up being much longer than that. So, 2018 for a Kennedy - Scarborough Town Centre LRT?

 

[nfitz]

The original LRT plan called for only an 11-kilometre tunnel in the middle. With the switch, the trains are now expected to travel at subway speeds, averaging 34 km/h versus 22 km/h. The trip between Jane and Kennedy will take about 25 minutes, rather than 45.

That must be a typo in the article.

It says "the trains are now expected to travel at subway speeds, averaging 34 km/h versus 22 km/h. The trip between Jane and Kennedy will take about 25 minutes, rather than 45"

It's almost exactly 20 km from Jane to Kennedy station. 20 km at 34 km/hr is 35 minutes, not 25 minutes.

To travel 20 km in 25 minutes you'd have to travel at 48 km/hr!

Presumably the 25 minutes is a typo and it should read 35 minutes.

 

[GenerationW]

Caledonia, where there’s a potential connection to GO’s Barrie line

Potential connection?? Shouldn't this have been decided by now?