True. I even remember reading an article somewhere that when they lengthened some of the platforms, they had to close some stations, because the lengthening put the station boxes way too close together.
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True. I even remember reading an article somewhere that when they lengthened some of the platforms, they had to close some stations, because the lengthening put the station boxes way too close together.
Eug
Senior Member
That nonetheless does sound like good news. However I'm not sure if I'm just out of touch, as I'm still extremely confused as to what is happening with Eglinton X-town. When are we supposed to get more updates on this?
Asterix
Active Member
Ford said the new plan would be ready end of January.
In early February Nick Kovalis said they were "this close" to coming to an agreement with Metrolinx.
So you know that any day we'll know for sure what the great Toronto Transportation City plan entails. You can take it to the bank.
lafard
Active Member
I would not trust a single word that comes out of Kouvalis' mouth. The man is a political spin genious but that pretty much discounts there being an honest bone in his body.
There is no plan. The way Metrolinx publicly came out and told Ford to go screw himself with his Sheppard line suggests there is a lot more of that going on behind the scenes.
My own gut feeling is that Metrolinx is trying to save Transit City and Ford is being his usual uncooperative self - or more likely, Ford simply stopped playing the Transit Planner game when it became clear his strategy and rhetoric wasn't convincing anybody in Metrolinx. His strategy thus far has been to use soundbites and leverage ignorance into emotional responses, it's how he got elected and it's how he's been running council, but such strategies fall apart when you're dealing with a rational, educated adversary. I don't think his emotional pleas about taking away traffic lanes matter one bit to transit planners who actually understand the LRT plan, and of course when the planners point out the EA documents or the road cross-sections etc, anything that contradicts Ford's innate biases, he just shuts down.
Hence, the deadlock.
Give it a few months. It's been discussed elsewhere that Ford runs a very high risk of losing the balance of power on council, and we might well see resumption of the original proposal go before council. Even failing that, Metrolinx pretty much has a provincial mandate to just start building whether Ford likes it or not - and I doubt Council would vote to block it at this point, given how tenuous Ford's alternative plan really is.
The central part of Eglinton is invariable no matter what happens. They'll start on that as planned, launch the TBMs as originally planned, and that gives a couple years to discuss the outer ends of the line. The central part, Jane to Don Mills, will be built.
There is no plan. The way Metrolinx publicly came out and told Ford to go screw himself with his Sheppard line suggests there is a lot more of that going on behind the scenes.
My own gut feeling is that Metrolinx is trying to save Transit City and Ford is being his usual uncooperative self - or more likely, Ford simply stopped playing the Transit Planner game when it became clear his strategy and rhetoric wasn't convincing anybody in Metrolinx. His strategy thus far has been to use soundbites and leverage ignorance into emotional responses, it's how he got elected and it's how he's been running council, but such strategies fall apart when you're dealing with a rational, educated adversary. I don't think his emotional pleas about taking away traffic lanes matter one bit to transit planners who actually understand the LRT plan, and of course when the planners point out the EA documents or the road cross-sections etc, anything that contradicts Ford's innate biases, he just shuts down.
Hence, the deadlock.
Give it a few months. It's been discussed elsewhere that Ford runs a very high risk of losing the balance of power on council, and we might well see resumption of the original proposal go before council. Even failing that, Metrolinx pretty much has a provincial mandate to just start building whether Ford likes it or not - and I doubt Council would vote to block it at this point, given how tenuous Ford's alternative plan really is.
The central part of Eglinton is invariable no matter what happens. They'll start on that as planned, launch the TBMs as originally planned, and that gives a couple years to discuss the outer ends of the line. The central part, Jane to Don Mills, will be built.
Dan416
Senior Member
To think Metrolinx is going to start building lines in Toronto without the City of Toronto's backing is simply ridiculous. It's not happening. They'll sooner fund other lines in cities that know what they want, e.g. Mississauga and Brampton's Hurontario LRT.
Just out of curiosity, would Metrolinx be able to by-pass the will of Toronto if the road they were building the LRT on was a provincially-owned road? I know most of the provincial highways within Toronto have been downloaded (Highway 11 comes to mind), but just speaking hypothetically.
Because AFAIR, all of the Transit City lines are going to be provincially-owned, right?
Because AFAIR, all of the Transit City lines are going to be provincially-owned, right?
rbt
Senior Member
The province can do anything it wants. If the city put up a fuss, they could simply eliminate the mayor and council positions and create a "Toronto" cabinet minister in charge of everything to do with the city. The city is entirely the creation of the province and governed entirely by the City of Toronto Act which can be changed in nearly any way with 3 readings and a vote.
Heck, the easy way would be to give Metrolinx the exact same power to muck with the official plan as the OMB has.
rbt
Senior Member
The province can do anything it wants. If the city put up a fuss, they could simply eliminate the mayor and council positions and create a "Toronto" cabinet minister in charge of everything to do with the city. The city is entirely the creation of the province and governed entirely by the City of Toronto Act which can be changed in nearly any way with 3 readings and a vote.
Heck, the easy way would be to give Metrolinx the exact same power to muck with the official plan as the OMB has.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Legally, yes.
In practice, which Ontario premier would take responsibility for such overhaul?
It would be both bad optics (curtailing the democracy) and bad political foresight (Toronto will manage to get itself into a mess anyway, but now that mess will be the provincial government's liability).
nfitz
Superstar
I wouldn't put it past future Premier Rob Ford
This is what I suspected. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Ford took an "Eglinton? Over my dead body" approach. Metrolinx could request that Eglinton be uploaded as a Provincial highway (maintenance of the road would be a small price to pay). The ROW would then become Provincial property, and they could do whatever they wanted within it (and underneath it).
Dan416
Senior Member
I think you're starting to drift off into Fantasyland...
TransitPolicyChanger
Active Member
I would agree, the Province does not own these streets, and has no control over them. Good luck trying to upload any of the proposed streets which have been planned to receive new transit lines, and even better luck trying to build anything without the City's consent. Until Ford sees the light (at least for the original proposed underground section of Eglinton) we are stuck.
DavidH
Senior Member
While I don't think there is ANY chance of Eglinton getting uploaded, it's surely within the broad powers that the Province has over the City to forcibly do so.
Politically, of course, it would be a disaster for the government of the day to do so.
Electrify
Senior Member
I think I suggested the possibility of an upload elsewhere on these boards. But would such a measure turn Eglinton (or possibly even Sheppard) into a GO line rather than a TTC one?