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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

nfitz said:
What's elevating Eglinton got to do with anything. That's long-since off the table.
Click to expand...

The argument presented by Burloak is that elevating Eglinton and combining the line with the SRT is cheaper than doing the Scarborough Subway extension.

I was just noting that it isn't actually cheaper due to the increased DRL cost.

As you said, it's not an option being presented at this time so it doesn't matter. It's been a recurring theme in this thread for several months, so I was hoping to stop it by presenting previously unconsidered facts.
 
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BurlOak's argument is that the choice is between either:

A. Scarborough LRT & fully grade-separated Eglinton East (essentially the 2010 MOU plan)
B. Scarborough Subway (Danforth ext) & at-grade ROW Eglinton East (the current plan)

Therefore the savings from building Scarborough LRT instead of the Scarborough subway can be subtracted from the cost to fully grade-separate Eglinton East.

Many argue full grade-separation of Eglinton East through Scarborough is unnecessary, but by through-routing it with SRT, the MOU plan projections boosted the ridership up to justify it. This essentially assumes those taking the SRT will take Eglinton to Yonge and go down Yonge, rather than using the Bloor line as they would currently.

My problem with this cost argument is that it's also possible to have the Scarborough LRT & at-grade ROW Eglinton East, just like in the original Transit City plan. So to me, it's not a binary choice between A & B above.

Anyways, this exact same argument comes up every month.
 
nfitz said:
What's elevating Eglinton got to do with anything. That's long-since off the table.
Click to expand...

I am just trying to propose a solution that:

  1. Serves the people of Scarborough
  2. Saves $1B.
  3. Is a compromise between 2 extremes that will eliminate the constant cancelling of plans.
  4. Is compatible with, and encourages, other needed transit such as the DRL and electrified GO.

The proposals considered so far only satisfy maybe 2 of these.
 
ehlow said:
My problem with this cost argument is that it's also possible to have the Scarborough LRT & at-grade ROW Eglinton East, just like in the original Transit City plan. So to me, it's not a binary choice between A & B above.
Click to expand...

This option was defeated by and is opposed by:

  1. The Provincial Government
  2. City Council
  3. TTC and Metrolinx
  4. 2 of the top 3 mayoralty candidates, representing 60% of polling support.

This third option is not available because it is opposed by almost every group and it is proven that if it is tabled it will be defeated.
 
rbt said:
The argument presented by Burloak is that elevating Eglinton and combining the line with the SRT is cheaper than doing the Scarborough Subway extension.

I was just noting that it isn't actually cheaper due to the increased DRL cost.
Click to expand...

I will accept that it is more expensive when the DRL is added in, but

it can also be said that the current plan of a B-D subway extension, or the Transit City plan with separate ECLRT and SRT, will not facilitate the construction of any DRL - GO will be able to adequately serve the need - and that is the only reason why the elevated plan can be considered more expensive.
 
BurlOak said:
I am just trying to propose a solution that:

  1. Serves the people of Scarborough
  2. Saves $1B.
  3. Is a compromise between 2 extremes that will eliminate the constant cancelling of plans.
  4. Is compatible with, and encourages, other needed transit such as the DRL and electrified GO.

The proposals considered so far only satisfy maybe 2 of these.
Click to expand...

BO, I must admit it's fun to come to this thread once every year or so and see you continue to passionately advocate for a solution NOONE - not your Mom, not our insane Mayor, not any transit advocate, left or right - thinks is non-insane. Gives me faith in the bedrock constants in an ever changing world.

But. You're still wrong.
 
BurlOak said:
I am just trying to propose a solution that:

  1. Serves the people of Scarborough
  2. Saves $1B.
  3. Is a compromise between 2 extremes that will eliminate the constant cancelling of plans.
  4. Is compatible with, and encourages, other needed transit such as the DRL and electrified GO.

The proposals considered so far only satisfy maybe 2 of these.
Click to expand...
Construction has already begun on the at-surface LRT in the centre of Eglinton. I see no more point debating this at this point, as whether we should debate converting the Bloor-Danforth line to coal.
 
ehlow said:
BurlOak's argument is that the choice is between either:

A. Scarborough LRT & fully grade-separated Eglinton East (essentially the 2010 MOU plan)
B. Scarborough Subway (Danforth ext) & at-grade ROW Eglinton East (the current plan)

Therefore the savings from building Scarborough LRT instead of the Scarborough subway can be subtracted from the cost to fully grade-separate Eglinton East.

Many argue full grade-separation of Eglinton East through Scarborough is unnecessary, but by through-routing it with SRT, the MOU plan projections boosted the ridership up to justify it. This essentially assumes those taking the SRT will take Eglinton to Yonge and go down Yonge, rather than using the Bloor line as they would currently.

My problem with this cost argument is that it's also possible to have the Scarborough LRT & at-grade ROW Eglinton East, just like in the original Transit City plan. So to me, it's not a binary choice between A & B above.

Anyways, this exact same argument comes up every month.
Click to expand...

I think this will all be a moot point. A DRL to Science Centre should still happen regardless of plan. The goal is to get people off Yonge.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
BO, I must admit it's fun to come to this thread once every year or so and see you continue to passionately advocate for a solution NOONE - not your Mom, not our insane Mayor, not any transit advocate, left or right - thinks is non-insane. Gives me faith in the bedrock constants in an ever changing world.

But. You're still wrong.
Click to expand...

I guess I look at things differently than other people. There has been talk of extending the subway to STC for a decade or more. Then it was switched to LRT with transfer at Kennedy, then to subway, then LRT, then subway. It also resulted in Rob Ford being elected mayor. How long will this cycle of futility continue?
 
BurlOak said:
It also resulted in Rob Ford being elected mayor.
Click to expand...
The Scarborough subway had little more effect on Rob Ford being elected mayor than the sex life of moths in New Zealand.

And I fail to see the link. If one wants the Scarborough subway one votes for a racist?
 
nfitz said:
Construction has already begun on the at-surface LRT in the centre of Eglinton. I see no more point debating this at this point, as whether we should debate converting the Bloor-Danforth line to coal.
Click to expand...

While I agree that it's likely too late, I don't think at-surface LRT construction has started yet, only tunnel.

The contract for the surface section & underground stations is currently in the bidding process where Metrolinx works with the bidders. The contract is finalized spring 2015 with construction for those things starting later in 2015.

It's still likely too late for major changes, but the surface part hasn't started construction, currently only the tunnel is.

Source: http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9038
 
ehlow said:
While I agree that it's likely too late, I don't think at-surface LRT construction has started yet, only tunnel.
Click to expand...
They are working on the portal first. Part of the current hole they are digging will be outside. It's in the middle of Eglinton, and can no longer be moved, without building a very expensive and completed interchange at Leslie and Egilnton.

ehlow said:
The contract for the surface section & underground stations is currently in the bidding process where Metrolinx works with the bidders. The contract is finalized spring 2015 with construction for those things starting later in 2015.

It's still likely too late for major changes, but the surface part hasn't started construction, currently only the tunnel is.
Click to expand...
.. and the exit of the tunnel. It's done ... it's in the middle. Sure, they could have done better ... but what's the point of going on about it now ...
 
nfitz said:
They are working on the portal first. Part of the current hole they are digging will be outside. It's in the middle of Eglinton, and can no longer be moved, without building a very expensive and completed interchange at Leslie and Egilnton.

.. and the exit of the tunnel. It's done ... it's in the middle. Sure, they could have done better ... but what's the point of going on about it now ...
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, they're starting to build the eastern launch shaft of the TBMs. I'm just saying they haven't started the actual surface part yet.
 
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