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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

nfitz said:
Good points.

This is also a downside with letting the lowest bidder to the engineering design of how the tunnel will be constructed, rather than designing it, and then letting the lowest bidder construct to a design. You increase the odds of a company doing a cheaper, but riskier, shortcut.
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I would say the opposite. Unless they are incompetent, the lowest bidder for design will simply make a bunch of super expensive assumptions that drive up constructions costs. A engineering firm does not want the liability, they would much rather have the owner pay a huge amount extra to limit their own liability.

It is probably the Contractor (constructor) who will take the cheaper and riskier options since the money comes from (or savings go to) their own pockets. And if something does go wrong, they still have the ability to blame an ambiguous design so they may not be blamed for any mishap.
 
BurlOak said:
I would say the opposite. Unless they are incompetent, the lowest bidder for design will simply make a bunch of super expensive assumptions that drive up constructions costs. A engineering firm does not want the liability, they would much rather have the owner pay a huge amount extra to limit their own liability.

It is probably the Contractor (constructor) who will take the cheaper and riskier options since the money comes from (or savings go to) their own pockets. And if something does go wrong, they still have the ability to blame an ambiguous design so they may not be blamed for any mishap.
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You assume the engineer is ethical and competent. The engineer is SNC-Lavalin, who time-and-time again, in countries around the world, especially in Canada, have been caught bribing officials, among other things.
 
nfitz said:
Good points.

This is also a downside with letting the lowest bidder to the engineering design of how the tunnel will be constructed, rather than designing it, and then letting the lowest bidder construct to a design. You increase the odds of a company doing a cheaper, but riskier, shortcut.
Click to expand...

In some cases, yes you're right. I don't think that was the case here though. I honestly just think it was less than ideal soil conditions + a vulnerable stage of the tunnelling + bad weather that exaggerated the bad soil conditions. The point where the sinkhole occurred is only a few metres away from where the tunnel portal is, so the tunnel is still very shallow at that point.

They did know that there were going to be soil problems though. The original design for the tunnel had an underground station at UOttawa, but the portal was pushed back to Laurier (with a surface station at UOttawa instead) because the geotechnical report said that the area around UOttawa was unsuitable for tunnelling. Despite pushing the portal back, they still had about 100m of "Sandy Hill" to dig through before they hit the more favourable rock that's present under the rest of downtown.
 
I suspect the problem with the TBM tacker is that they can't use an automatic GIS signal or anything to know where the machines are. Only the contractor underground knows exactly where they are, and they might not want to report the exact locations too regularly. I suspect Metrolinx gets a weekly or bi-weekly update from the contractor which is then used to update the tracker.
 
gweed123 said:
Despite pushing the portal back, they still had about 100m of "Sandy Hill" to dig through before they hit the more favourable rock that's present under the rest of downtown.
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The obvious answer was that they should have done that 100 metres using cut-and-cover. Which is essentially what they are going to do now.

Thankfully no one was killed in yet another attempt to maximize SNC-Lavalin's profits.
 
I don't think so. I just walked by, and the hole has been completely filled in with concrete and paved. I think they will carefully patch up the ceiling and carry on.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Why wouldn't the contractor want to update the locations?
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It's speculation but one reason might be so they don't get unwarranted complaints about noise and vibrations that aren't actually their fault. There are always noises and vibrations in the city, from industry, trucks, buses, aircraft. If you're not listening for it it goes unnoticed. However, if you know there is a TBM 20m below your front door right now people would have a tenancy to notice every single bump and jolt and assume it was the TBM, and then lodge complaints. If people don't know exactly where it is that won't happen - the TBM will pass unnoticed. I suspect the TBM is actually a somewhat farther along than the tracker shows.
 
howl said:
It's speculation but one reason might be so they don't get unwarranted complaints about noise and vibrations that aren't actually their fault. There are always noises and vibrations in the city, from industry, trucks, buses, aircraft. If you're not listening for it it goes unnoticed. However, if you know there is a TBM 20m below your front door right now people would have a tenancy to notice every single bump and jolt and assume it was the TBM, and then lodge complaints. If people don't know exactly where it is that won't happen - the TBM will pass unnoticed. I suspect the TBM is actually a somewhat farther along than the tracker shows.
Click to expand...

You think thats the reason? For me (call me sceptical), the longer they take down there, the longer the work goes on and the more money the workers make
 
Palma said:
You think thats the reason? For me (call me sceptical), the longer they take down there, the longer the work goes on and the more money the workers make
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Usually contracts are awarded for a fixed price, so the contractor makes the same money if they do it quick or do it slow. The frontline grunts might make more money if it goes slow, but the company bosses make more money if they go fast (since they have to pay the grunts less), so the foreman will be driving them on.
 
ehlow said:
http://www.thecrosstown.ca/get-involved/upcoming-events
Two events next week. They seem mostly to be for Q&A, no presentation, so I probably won't go.

However you can bring up your urgent issues directly with them, like:
-trying to make elevated east side happen
-south side alignment at Leslie
-DRL connection at Don Mills
-stop spacing
-increasing TBM tracker updating frequency to higher than once a week
-whether Johnny Au can be hired as TBM updater
-why the tunnel has caved back in
Click to expand...

For the first 3, I wonder if a Provincial Party can score political points by making this an issue. here is the messaging:

  • Transit Expert Andy Byford says that the DRL is the #1 priority.
  • The DRL would extend up to Eglinton to help North York and Scarborough residents get downtown.
  • The DRL would free up capacity on the Yonge line to allow it to be extended to Richmond Hill.
  • By not having provisions for a DRL station at Eglinton, it is clear that the current government does not support the transit Toronto and the GTA needs.
  • We promise to build the DRL station together with the Eglinton line station to save money and reduce the construction disruption.
  • We promise to connect this DRL to the other subway lines by continuing the underground Eglinton line to Don Mills and not putting it in the middle of the road.

I think this strategy may work for the NDP and PC's.

It may even work for the Liberals - look how their by-election campaign was that the current government is completely wrong by trying to build the SRT with a transfer and we promise to build a subway. The Gas Plant was the same thing - the current government were completely wrong to build a Gas plant in Mississauga and Oakville and we promise to cancel it. It has worked twice, why not try it again.

PS. Sorry Johnny, I do not think your employment will become an election issue.
 
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