Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[BurlOak]

I bet the debate goes back to council. They really either need to build the subway in the SRT median, or go back to the SRT itself. The cost of this thing will get to 5 billion soon. And since you brought up the distance, someone will bring up Scarborough Malvern on city council I hope!

The SRT closure was one of the main problems with the Transit City plan and it is the reason why nobody liked the SRT Subway route. That was a terrible idea that I think the Province admits was a waste of time and money to come up with. From Steve Munro, Metrolinx is even assuming that the Kennedy Station(s) will follow the City McCowan route.

Metrolinx appears to assume that the Scarborough Subway will take the “City” route east along Eglinton and north via McCowan

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9038

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The SRT closure was one of the main problems with the Transit City plan and it is the reason why nobody liked the SRT Subway route. That was a terrible idea that I think the Province admits was a waste of time and money to come up with. From Steve Munro, Metrolinx is even assuming that the Kennedy Station(s) will follow the City McCowan route.



http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9038

Yeah,

The recommended route will not be known for at least a year until the Scarborough Subway EA looks at the two schemes in detail, but Metrolinx plans to finalize the tender that will include Kennedy LRT station before the EA is completed.

So they favor that for now, we won't know for sure until the EA comes out. It is Glen Murray's idea after all. Personally I think this is not the end of this debate by a long shot.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I think after they conduct the EA they will see a need to put a station at Brimley and Eglinton due to the distance between the station at Kennedy and Lawrence and McCowan is too much (4.3 km). I don't think there is such a great distance between any two stations on the TTC subway system. This will shoot up the costs. What will happen then?

its 3.6km, and while it will be the longest distance between stations, Kennedy - Warden (the current longest) is 2.6km, so long distances between stations isn't unheard of. when you get up to that sort of distance underground you simply have to stick some emergency evacuation access points along the line, which are needed for essentially any length over 1km. (there are a couple on the spadina extension as well)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yeah,

So they favor that for now, we won't know for sure until the EA comes out. It is Glen Murray's idea after all. Personally I think this is not the end of this debate by a long shot.

Steve did mention that we won't know the full cost of the subway until the EA is done. Back in the summer I remember some at Council were fearful that when the EA is finalized we'd find that the true costs of the project would be significantly higher than budget for. If that is true then we'll probably end up with a shorter route to STC. Lets just hope that the TTCs estimate was spot on.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

its 3.6km, and while it will be the longest distance between stations, Kennedy - Warden (the current longest) is 2.6km, so long distances between stations isn't unheard of. when you get up to that sort of distance underground you simply have to stick some emergency evacuation access points along the line, which are needed for essentially any length over 1km. (there are a couple on the spadina extension as well)

3.6 km is ridiculous spacing. Especially since Brimely Station would be incredibly important for the many people who live and work along Eglinton East.

I understand that the TTC probably doesn't want a station there because of the curvature, but I think the benefits of building the station definitely outweigh the downsides.

 

[innsertnamehere]

they probably are, at least to an acceptable margin of error. the costs are currently at $434 million / km, which seems high considering this is a 7.6km line with 3 stations. If anything I can see the TTC building some huge station at STC with an unnecessary underground bus terminal (which it seems to love nowadays, with the underground terminal at Don Mills and the proposed one at Steeles) along with some sort of fancy sheppard station to intersect with the sheppard LRT.

 

[Voltz]

Steve did mention that we won't know the full cost of the subway until the EA is done. Back in the summer I remember some at Council were fearful that when the EA is finalized we'd find that the true costs of the project would be significantly higher than budget for. If that is true then we'll probably end up with a shorter route to STC. Lets just hope that the TTCs estimate was spot on.

The cost premium is already a billion dollars more than Stintz' original claimed figure of five hundred million.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

they probably are, at least to an acceptable margin of error. the costs are currently at $434 million / km, which seems high considering this is a 7.6km line with 3 stations. If anything I can see the TTC building some huge station at STC with an unnecessary underground bus terminal (which it seems to love nowadays, with the underground terminal at Don Mills and the proposed one at Steeles) along with some sort of fancy sheppard station to intersect with the sheppard LRT.

I'd rather them spend that money on an el cheapo Brimley Station rather than overbuilt fancy stations on the rest of the line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The cost premium is already a billion dollars more than Stintz' original claimed figure of five hundred million.

Is the $500 Million what Council budget for back in the summer? If the estimates go any higher then the debate will almost certainly be reopened.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the council numbers are $960 million from property taxes and $660 million from the feds on top of the original $1.4 billion from the province, meaning $1.5 billion more than the LRT. I don't really expect that number to change by much, it seems like the TTC stuck lots of contingency into it. The only way it could change significantly is if the EA decides to go with the old LRT alignment, which would cost a similar amount but may be $100-$200 million more.

 

[salsa]

3.6 km is ridiculous spacing. Especially since Brimely Station would be incredibly important for the many people who live and work along Eglinton East.

I think the spacing can be reduced to ~3 km if the subway takes a more direct route to Lawrence & McCowan, by going under the subdivisions. Who said subways have to follow the roads?

 

[BurlOak]

3.6 km is ridiculous spacing. Especially since Brimely Station would be incredibly important for the many people who live and work along Eglinton East.

I understand that the TTC probably doesn't want a station there because of the curvature, but I think the benefits of building the station definitely outweigh the downsides.

If you want a station on Eglinton, then why not just extend the B-D Subway along Eglinton to Kingston Road. It is 4.5 km, which should cost about $1.5B and still leave enough money on the table that the Transit City LRT option can be improved. There would be stations at Brimley/McCowan, Eglinton GO, and Markham/Kingston - with about 1.5km spacing for each.

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...-(including-fantasy-maps)?p=807967#post807967

 

[ehlow]

What are the advantages of taking the SRT route over McCowan?
SRT seems to be through a hydro or railway corridor through industrial parks where no one really lives. McCowan is low-rise suburban housing, but at least it's a road people use and live near. In both cases, I would assume that ridership is primarily from buses can connect with the stations.

I guess the advantage is the cost savings of not having to tunnel?

 

[innsertnamehere]

the advantage is hitting Centennial college.

I prefer the city route really, its faster, and actually has a useful connection to the Sheppard LRT.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think everyone prefers the City's route. What Murray proposed was so horrible that I actually thought it was designed to dissuade people from supporting the subway.