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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

salsa said:
The following items were brought up in this thread several times. Here's what Steve Munro has to say.



This is from the comments section of his latest article.
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That's my comment! :) Not sure why Eglinton East (Scar-Malvern LRT) duplicates the Danforth Scarborough subway extension, since there will be no stops on Eglinton on the subway. Maybe I'll ask him.

I get his point that either elevated or trenched stations are probably much more expensive due to the elevators/escalators. If the traffic lights are far apart (and synced), you get less of a benefit from avoiding them.
 
ehlow said:
That's my comment! :) Not sure why Eglinton East (Scar-Malvern LRT) duplicates the Danforth Scarborough subway extension, since there will be no stops on Eglinton on the subway. Maybe I'll ask him.

I get his point that either elevated or trenched stations are probably much more expensive due to the elevators/escalators. If the traffic lights are far apart (and synced), you get less of a benefit from avoiding them.
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I think the S-M line was going have an underground station on Eglinton just east of the GO corridor. That means there would have be be 4 sets of underground tracks in that immediate area and locating the S-M station may be difficult due to the presence of the subway tracks.
 
BurlOak said:
I think the S-M line was going have an underground station on Eglinton just east of the GO corridor. That means there would have be be 4 sets of underground tracks in that immediate area and locating the S-M station may be difficult due to the presence of the subway tracks.
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Yup, Eglinton and Brimley will get a subway station with the McCowan subway proposal.
 
innsertnamehere said:
No it's not. First station will be at Lawrence.
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How are you going to justify no stops between Kennedy and Danforth Road? And how can you guarantee it's not, just because it's never on mock maps? And how would you tell people to keep going to Kennedy of the subway goes on Eglinton for a few km from Kennedy to Danforth? Does not make sense.
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
That's the plan if the use the McCowan route. Kennedy to McCowan Road is a bit of a hike on foot.
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As far as I know, The Provincial "Murray" subway plan has one station at Lawrence (East) and one at Scarborough City Centre. This could be done for the cost of about $2.5B - cost cost of replacing the SRT and extending it to Sheppard as per Transit City. If they can use the new money (Federal and City contribution of a combined $1.5B), they claim they could extend this subway with Stations at Centennial College and Sheppard (near Markham Road) (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/20130910_Scarborough_Subway_Feasibility_Study.pdf). There were discussions about the accuracy of their estimates, but that was their proposal.

The TTC "City" plan, which Council voted for and the Federal and City money was earmarked for, had the subway following the McCowan route with Stations at Lawrence (farther East), Scarborough City Centre (but maybe a McCowan) and Sheppard.

news-sub2-0912_large.jpg


We know that the debate will be opened again when they begin to discuss the details of the routes. The two things that they will find are:

  1. There is not enough money for the station at Brimley - the station would have to be in a curve and additional property and complexity would be needed to fit in a tangent section near Brimley to allow for a station.
  2. There will not be a station at Scarborough City Centre since it would be much too difficult to curve away from McCowan and then curve back again.

The LRT Councillors will push for the Transit City Plan, while Stintz will push for more "revenue tools" to add these extra goodies to her beloved OneCity route. Ford will just support any plan that gets grade-separated transit to SCC, without offering anything intelligent to the debate. We all know there is a less expensive solution that would be acceptable to the public, transit experts, and most Councillors, but none of the current leaders will propose it.
 

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BurlOak said:
As far as I know, The Provincial "Murray" subway plan has one station at Lawrence (East) and one at Scarborough City Centre. This could be done for the cost of about $2.5B - cost cost of replacing the SRT and extending it to Sheppard as per Transit City. If they can use the new money (Federal and City contribution of a combined $1.5B), they claim they could extend this subway with Stations at Centennial College and Sheppard (near Markham Road) (http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/20130910_Scarborough_Subway_Feasibility_Study.pdf). There were discussions about the accuracy of their estimates, but that was their proposal.

The TTC "City" plan, which Council voted for and the Federal and City money was earmarked for, had the subway following the McCowan route with Stations at Lawrence (farther East), Scarborough City Centre (but maybe a McCowan) and Sheppard.

View attachment 21388

We know that the debate will be opened again when they begin to discuss the details of the routes. The two things that they will find are:

  1. There is not enough money for the station at Brimley - the station would have to be in a curve and additional property and complexity would be needed to fit in a tangent section near Brimley to allow for a station.
  2. There will not be a station at Scarborough City Centre since it would be much too difficult to curve away from McCowan and then curve back again.

The LRT Councillors will push for the Transit City Plan, while Stintz will push for more "revenue tools" to add these extra goodies to her beloved OneCity route. Ford will just support any plan that gets grade-separated transit to SCC, without offering anything intelligent to the debate. We all know there is a less expensive solution that would be acceptable to the public, transit experts, and most Councillors, but none of the current leaders will propose it.
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I have to disagree with that. Having a Brimley/Danforth Station is warrented to the density of the area (relative to Scarborough). You also Can't tell people to go to Kennedy when come on to Eglinton, they will demand a stop rather than just going to Kennedy. Of course it will add to the cost but they should do this right. I think this plan is becoming too expensive for my tastes anyway. As for STC, I figured as much. There was no way they would such a tight curve into the building. it would also be way more difficult to bring it to Sheppard.
 
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you do realize that the TBMs don't have to follow McCowen right? The TBMs only have to align at Lawrence & McCowen, STC, and Sheppard & McCowen. To get an STC station the TBMs can slowly swerve off into the subdivisions after Lawrence to line up properly with STC, and a similar thing can be done with Brimley, where it doesn't turn off exactly at McCowen but can do so a bit furth along and simply meet up with McCowen again at Lawrence.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I have to disagree with that. Having a Brimley/Danforth Station is warrented to the density of the area (relative to Scarborough). You also Can't tell people to go to Kennedy when come on to Eglinton, they will demand a stop rather than just going to Kennedy. Of course it will add to the cost but they should do this right. I think this plan is becoming too expensive for my tastes anyway. As for STC, I figured as much. There was no way they would such a tight curve into the building. it would also be way more difficult to bring it to Sheppard.
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I don't know this area very well, but doesn't it make more sense to have the subway stop at McCowan & Ellesmere anyways? Generally I prefer rapid transit lines & stops be along major roads without diverting. Is this mall worth moving the station from a major intersection from?
 
innsertnamehere said:
you do realize that the TBMs don't have to follow McCowen right? The TBMs only have to align at Lawrence & McCowen, STC, and Sheppard & McCowen. To get an STC station the TBMs can slowly swerve off into the subdivisions after Lawrence to line up properly with STC, and a similar thing can be done with Brimley, where it doesn't turn off exactly at McCowen but can do so a bit furth along and simply meet up with McCowen again at Lawrence.
Click to expand...
So I take it you do not think it's a good idea to put a station at Brimley? So you're taking Eglinton East and you still have to go to Kennedy when the subway is already under Eglinton for a few kms? I think Metrolinx will disagree.
ehlow said:
I don't know this area very well, but doesn't it make more sense to have the subway stop at McCowan & Ellesmere anyways? Generally I prefer rapid transit lines & stops be along major roads without diverting. Is this mall worth moving the station from a major intersection from?
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Yes it would, but it would be farther from the station. Putting it under STC is better for connectivity. We'll see once to EA comes out.
 
I think after they conduct the EA they will see a need to put a station at Brimley and Eglinton due to the distance between the station at Kennedy and Lawrence and McCowan is too much (4.3 km). I don't think there is such a great distance between any two stations on the TTC subway system. This will shoot up the costs. What will happen then?
 
Adjei said:
I think after they conduct the EA they will see a need to put a station at Brimley and Eglinton due to the distance between the station at Kennedy and Lawrence and McCowan is too much (4.3 km). I don't think there is such a great distance between any two stations on the TTC subway system. This will shoot up the costs. What will happen then?
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I bet the debate goes back to council. They really either need to build the subway in the SRT median, or go back to the SRT itself. The cost of this thing will get to 5 billion soon. And since you brought up the distance, someone will bring up Scarborough Malvern on city council I hope!
 
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