Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[drum118]

^ I know. Anyone looking at the convoluted route to the airport will wonder what on earth happened during the planning process. The immovable busway terminal with busses running on pavement could not be moved to make the trip on the LRT rail project more direct.

I can understand that Route 5 needs to be ruled out because many of the busses will be headed south on the 427, but why the busway terminus can't be moved to the south east corner of Renforth and Eglinton is beyond me. Instead of making good use of the hydro corridor they are using up land which could be developed. Ideally the LRT would come down from the airport on Carlingview and dive under the 401 in a straight line surfacing south of Eglinton to connect with the busway terminal and then head east.

Key Word: Under 401 = Tunnel = $$$ = {have you looked at that corner??}

Better still: $$$ = Tunnel in a straight line under the 401, the runways to the terminal from Renforth = Time saving in travel time.

 

[officedweller]

What about over the 401 (through the interchange)?

 

[Rainforest]

Would it make sense to split the route?

One branch runs non-stop from Martin Grove to the airport, the other serves Renforth and the business area and connects to Mississauga Transitway.

 

[EnviroTO]

Key Word: Under 401 = Tunnel = $$$ = {have you looked at that corner??}

With the 427 South lanes already elevated at that point I would expect it could be done at a cost three times that of the Dufferin Jog elimination. It is easier to to cut and cover construction under a roadway where lanes can be detoured around the construction site than it would be under a runway.

If $$$ was the primary determinant then Route 5 would be optimal with a BRT extension to Martin Grove using lanes in the middle of Eglinton (the path of the LRT proposed in the other 4 alternative routes). Buses could then double back to the 427 south. This would completely eliminate the need to build an LRT bridge over the 401 since fitting the LRT into the Highway 27 tunnel under the 401 would be a minimal expense. It makes no sense that building an LRT to go out of its way is cheap but making the BRT go out of its way is expensive.... obviously the opposite is true.

 

[drum118]

What about over the 401 (through the interchange)?

T...........oo costly and traffic disruption

 

[drum118]

With the 427 South lanes already elevated at that point I would expect it could be done at a cost three times that of the Dufferin Jog elimination. It is easier to to cut and cover construction under a roadway where lanes can be detoured around the construction site than it would be under a runway.

If $$$ was the primary determinant then Route 5 would be optimal with a BRT extension to Martin Grove using lanes in the middle of Eglinton (the path of the LRT proposed in the other 4 alternative routes). Buses could then double back to the 427 south. This would completely eliminate the need to build an LRT bridge over the 401 since fitting the LRT into the Highway 27 tunnel under the 401 would be a minimal expense. It makes no sense that building an LRT to go out of its way is cheap but making the BRT go out of its way is expensive.... obviously the opposite is true.

You use a TBM for the airport as there is no way the GTTA is going to allow a cut and cover project cut up their runway.

TTC did look at taking MT BRT to Martin Grove, but could not get it to work for the BRT going onto 27/427.

Now taking the ROW down the Hydro corridor to Kipling would solve the problem as well open up better access to TTC to service the area north of here from Kipling.

 

[XBOYZ]

Airport Route

For someone who works at Pearson Airport and takes the subway and 192 Rocket (or 300A nightbus on early starts) and , I have lived in European cities which all have rail links (not the Union Pearson proposed kind but LRT or Metro/Subway links) it is beyond me why Canada's largest city and most important air gateway has no rail link. And always , for the past 30 years (I am Canadian and grew up here just spent alot of time abroad)they (CityHall etc) always say there is no money and feasability plans ned to be done etc etc (same old with Toronto planners right?). Now HOW embarrassing for Toronto that Vancouver is now Canada's first city with a direct rail link to the airport! And..marvel of marvels..something I have suggested numerous times to Giambrone and his TTC predecesor's..a Skytrain/Monorail. Vancouver recently opened it's latest Skytrain line direct from downtown Van to the airport in Richmond. What is the problem with the TTC/Toronto having a monorail run from Kipling subway Above the 427 right into Pearson;s 2 terminals. And before all the Toronto naysayers say "oh it wouldn't work here etc etc.." these type of systems run the world over. And the winter weather/ice is not an issue as we have a monorail connecting the 2 terminals and employee parking lots and they run fine all year. So..when will Toronto come into the modern world...and even US cities such as Boston,Chicago,San Francisco all have subway links airport/city..just like in europe. Until the Toronto politicians stop bending over to the car driver lobbies we will be forever...behind.

 

[EnviroTO]

Now taking the ROW down the Hydro corridor to Kipling would solve the problem as well open up better access to TTC to service the area north of here from Kipling.

That is a great idea. It would allow Route 5 to be used for the Eglinton LRT which allows it to take a more direct route and serve the myriad of hotels and their convention centres / meeting rooms on Dixon, allows the rocket routes from Kipling to avoid Dundas and the 427 south of the 401 completely, and is the most direct route for the Mississauga busway to get to Kipling. Why aren't they proposing this???

 

[Fresh Start]

Why aren't they proposing this???

Lack of creative thought, I suppose. I totally agree with this proposal except why the isolated midblock station at Hwy 27? Were an underground station placed at Hwy 27 & Dixon instead, it'd be easy walking distance from both sides to the Toronto Congress Centre/Doubletree Int'l and to Skyway Ave. The better location for the midblock, IMO, is Martin Grove & The Westway via TBM due to its preexisting density (several apartment buildings and a mall; natural terminus for the 111 and 52 buses).

 

[gweed123]

An Etobicoke LRT à la Scarborough LRT would make a lot of sense (assuming the DRL isn't built using the rail corridor all the way to Pearson, if that's the case the Etobicoke LRT using the hydro corridor is on the backburner for sure). Let's face it, it's very likely that a lot more people will still use the B-D subway to reach Pearson than the Eglinton LRT. As well, building the Etobicoke LRT along the hydro corridor to Pearson creates a logical hub for the Etobicoke LRT to intersect the Eglinton LRT and the Mississauga BRT, pretty much a Kennedy station, but in the West end (and without a subway connection).

Overall, the City has an unexplainable advertedness to using hydro corridors to their full potential as possible transit corridors as well *cough* Finch corridor *cough*. The notion that rapid transit MUST be within 30ft of a major arterial road at all times or else it will be useless, is antiquated. It doesn't have to be near a major arterial, it just has to bisect them at logical station points.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Got an e-mail from eglintontransit@toronto.ca (no human name attached to it, just Public Consultation, City of Toronto, eglintontransit@toronto.ca). In it, it says:

To confirm, after a thorough review, the decision was made to proceed with Route 1, as it would provide the best connection to existing and future development in the vicinity of the Airport.

More details will be provided at the next round of consultation.

Route 1 is Eglinton Avenue/Commerce Blvd./Convair Drive/Silver Dart Drive.

 

[CodeMonkey]

The thing i don't get is why have the Eglinton LRT connect to the airport if its going to be slower to get to the subway transfer than the Blue 22 train is union subway transfer?


I think the problem with Transit City is that LRTs are getting in the way of much needed subways. LRTs in parts of the city are a great idea; but the I think the city has this notion in their head that its cheap and easy to build and they can sell it as a "European way" of travel and everyone is aboard.

 

[golodhendil]

The thing i don't get is why have the Eglinton LRT connect to the airport if its going to be slower to get to the subway transfer than the Blue 22 train is union subway transfer?

Would the Eglinton LRT or the Blue 22 be faster for people in North York / north Scarborough?

I think the problem with Transit City is that LRTs are getting in the way of much needed subways. LRTs in parts of the city are a great idea; but the I think the city has this notion in their head that its cheap and easy to build and they can sell it as a "European way" of travel and everyone is aboard.

I know this has been beaten to death here, but this is exactly the most ridiculous part about Toronto's transit policy: except for a few notable German / BeNe cities, most major European cities of Toronto's size or even smaller developed their modern LRT network only after (or simultaneously as) their even more extensive HRT metro network.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Would the Eglinton LRT or the Blue 22 be faster for people in North York / north Scarborough?

Unless they're very close to Eglinton or otherwise very far from a GO line, Blue 22 for most of them...or something approaching from the NE, like a Finch West line that goes to Woodbine/Pearson and doesn't terminate at Humber. Of course, if Blue 22 costs extra or only runs every 30 minutes or whatever, this changes things.

There obviously needs to be some transit connection between Eglinton and Pearson, but perhaps that connection should be made at a place like Martin Grove or Renforth, where MT/GO/TTC can all mingle at the end of some kind of airport link, particularly if the place the LRT terminates at the actual airport is not the most convenient. Critical stops like Silver Dart may not be built, though, which means such a plan is impossible.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Would the Eglinton LRT or the Blue 22 be faster for people in North York / north Scarborough?

The problem with the Eglinton LRT was it would have alot of stops in-between, and would only have any beneficial for people who live on the west side Eglinton West station who want to go to the airport.

As I said in another thread; They can build the line using MKII ICTS/ART trains but replaceing the LIMs with regular motors as the GO-ALRT program had in mind and build everything to subway specs. The MKII are just the same size as a LRT but the line will have a third power rail installed. So when the time comes to have a full subway they can just use the existing HRT fleet.

Right now we have the politicians willing to pay. But if we go with some small LRT network when the time comes to build a subway their going to say; "we don't have the money", "we have to raise taxes" and "the province doesn't think its a good investment" etc, etc, etc. So lets build now for the future because this opportunity won't come again for another 20-30 years.