Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[innsertnamehere]

That's what I've heard too, however they DID go back to council to get approval for the EA amendment for the Mt. Dennis end of the line. It was unanimously approved the same week (maybe the same day) as Metrolinx announced that they were abandoning the EA amendment for the Brentcliffe to Don Mills alignment. Again, Metrolinx' rationale (or lack thereof) is baffling to me.

Because that was a minor change, more of a "hashing out the details" than the Undergrounding of the LRT to Don Mills. Ford would start screaming to extend it to Kennedy underground, and next thing you know city council has voted to cancel the Finch and Sheppard LRTs and go back to Fords old plan. The western LRT EA was for the uncontroversial portion of the line, and therefore went through without incident.

 

[Rainforest]

And to think that on some other threads, people are saying that the current Provincial Liberals are the one to be trusted to provide good transit.

Provincial Liberals are building a lot of transit, even though making mistakes in the process. Hudak's Conservatives have made it clear that transit takes a back seat for them and they can only take care of it after the deficit is eliminated and taxes are lowered.

When you give me different Conservatives, or a sensible third party with a chance to get elected and a resolve to keep building transit, I will happily agree that it is time for the Liberals to go. Until then, it is either messy expansion under Liberals, or a complete halt under Hudak.

 

[BurlOak]

Provincial Liberals are building a lot of transit, even though making mistakes in the process. Hudak's Conservatives have made it clear that transit takes a back seat for them and they can only take care of it after the deficit is eliminated and taxes are lowered.

When you give me different Conservatives, or a sensible third party with a chance to get elected and a resolve to keep building transit, I will happily agree that it is time for the Liberals to go. Until then, it is either messy expansion under Liberals, or a complete halt under Hudak.

Both parties would spend on Scarborough Subway and the already started Egliton line. Beyond that:

I think that Hudak wants to eleminate the decifit by 2017 and then start funding subways.

The Liberals want to spend on transit immediately and will begin with the Sheppard and Finch line in 2017/18.

A similar thing happened in 2003, the PC's promised to close coal fired plants by 2014 and the Liberals promised to do it immediately, having that last one closed by 2007. I think they are on schedule for 2014.

 

[BurlOak]

Because that was a minor change, more of a "hashing out the details" than the Undergrounding of the LRT to Don Mills. Ford would start screaming to extend it to Kennedy underground, and next thing you know city council has voted to cancel the Finch and Sheppard LRTs and go back to Fords old plan. The western LRT EA was for the uncontroversial portion of the line, and therefore went through without incident.

The EA change for the portion between Brentcliffe and Don Mills where similar to those in the West end. (I would agree that the scope change would be a bit larger for a Don Mills to Kennedy portion, but that would still have been doable).

Ford does enough wrong on his own. Blaming Liberal and Metrolinx imcompetance on Ford just helps support the arguement that Ford is always being picked on.

 

[Rainforest]

Both parties would spend on Scarborough Subway and the already started Egliton line.

This is true.

Beyond that:

I think that Hudak wants to eleminate the decifit by 2017 and then start funding subways.

The Liberals want to spend on transit immediately and will begin with the Sheppard and Finch line in 2017/18.

A similar thing happened in 2003, the PC's promised to close coal fired plants by 2014 and the Liberals promised to do it immediately, having that last one closed by 2007. I think they are on schedule for 2014.

This is debatable. Liberals want to continue some transit expansion funding even before the deficit is eliminated, they will still build Finch and Sheppard LRT. Plus, they want to introduce dedicated transit taxes, if it works, there will be a transit funding stream independent on the general budget situation.

For PC's, at least under Hudak, transit is low priority. If the the deficit cannot be eliminated by 2017 for whatever reason (new recession?), they will keep deferring subways and they will not build anything else.

 

[Adjei]

Plus the guy is promising to build all the subways through being efficient in government which we know is complete bullsh!t. He wants to build the Yonge extension, Downtown relief line, turn the Sheppard lrt into a subway, and also the Finch line into a subway. This basically equates to saying you won't build anything.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/02/subways-we-have-the-man-and-the-plan

 

[rbt]

For PC's, at least under Hudak, transit is low priority. If the the deficit cannot be eliminated by 2017 for whatever reason ...

Tax cuts. It was very clear in the last election priorities were:

1) Eliminate deficit
2) Tax cuts (which may recreate the deficit)
3) Transportation solutions; including ramping up highway development

I would speculate that much of the other half would be GO as it reaches conservative seats.

 

[sixrings]

I feel like a broken record but to me it makes sense to complete the Eglinton line to the Airport mainly so we can have one full example of what a LRT line will look like. I was a fan of Finch when it went all the way to yonge. Now it feels like a stub looking to be chopped. Im scared that the SELRT and FWLRT will be cut to extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview. The extension wouldnt bother be very much but it would mean that Eglinton is the ONLY LRT line in Toronto. If thats going to be the case at least complete the line so we have an example of LRT when we look to transit projects in the future.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I feel like a broken record but to me it makes sense to complete the Eglinton line to the Airport mainly so we can have one full example of what a LRT line will look like. I was a fan of Finch when it went all the way to yonge. Now it feels like a stub looking to be chopped. Im scared that the SELRT and FWLRT will be cut to extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview. The extension wouldnt bother be very much but it would mean that Eglinton is the ONLY LRT line in Toronto. If thats going to be the case at least complete the line so we have an example of LRT when we look to transit projects in the future.

I agree 100% The province needs to refund the entire thing to Renforth and Morningside at least.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I feel like a broken record but to me it makes sense to complete the Eglinton line to the Airport mainly so we can have one full example of what a LRT line will look like. I was a fan of Finch when it went all the way to yonge. Now it feels like a stub looking to be chopped. Im scared that the SELRT and FWLRT will be cut to extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview. The extension wouldnt bother be very much but it would mean that Eglinton is the ONLY LRT line in Toronto. If thats going to be the case at least complete the line so we have an example of LRT when we look to transit projects in the future.

Chances are that Chow will propose an Eglinton extension during the election.

 

[BurlOak]

Plus the guy is promising to build all the subways through being efficient in government which we know is complete bullsh!t. He wants to build the Yonge extension, Downtown relief line, turn the Sheppard lrt into a subway, and also the Finch line into a subway. This basically equates to saying you won't build anything.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/02/subways-we-have-the-man-and-the-plan

Lets take a Ministry at random - say energy. We have confirmed that $1.1B has been wasted on the Gas plants. The Wind Energy deal has not been investigated as much but it seems Billions have been wasted there generating intermittant energy (mostly in the windier should seasons of Spring and Fall - even though the peaks occur in Winter and Summer). It is probably in the $2B to $5B range - lets say $2B. Now multiply this $3B by 25 Ministries in Ontario and you get $75B. It appears that the entire Big Move could have been funded in 10 years.

PS. I acknowledge that this calculation is not perfect, but I think everyone will agree that the Liberals have done a terrible job economically and nobody in the province would accept paying anything extra in TAXES (they are not alternative revenue streams or funding sources) until we get a government that shows they can manage the money properly.

 

[GenerationW]

I agree 100% The province needs to refund the entire thing to Renforth and Morningside at least.

At least?? What's at most?

 

[Standard]

Lets take a Ministry at random - say energy. We have confirmed that $1.1B has been wasted on the Gas plants. The Wind Energy deal has not been investigated as much but it seems Billions have been wasted there generating intermittant energy (mostly in the windier should seasons of Spring and Fall - even though the peaks occur in Winter and Summer). It is probably in the $2B to $5B range - lets say $2B. Now multiply this $3B by 25 Ministries in Ontario and you get $75B. It appears that the entire Big Move could have been funded in 10 years.

PS. I acknowledge that this calculation is not perfect, but I think everyone will agree that the Liberals have done a terrible job economically and nobody in the province would accept paying anything extra in TAXES (they are not alternative revenue streams or funding sources) until we get a government that shows they can manage the money properly.

Just so you know, the Gas Plant fiasco will be paid off with an extra charge on everyone's electricity bill. So the money was not there in the first place and if it never happened we would not have that 1.1B for transit.

 

[BurlOak]

Just so you know, the Gas Plant fiasco will be paid off with an extra charge on everyone's electricity bill. So the money was not there in the first place and if it never happened we would not have that 1.1B for transit.

I do not understand your arguement.

If something is paid in cash, in full, then it could have been used towards transit. If anything is paid with future taxes - as all government expenses are, then it is not available for transit. I suppose you will agree that the $1B City property tax could not have been used for anything else since it was not there in the first place.

Money is money, and if it is wasted then it is no longer avaiable. It could have been available or I suppose it could have been wasted on something else.

 

[rbt]

I do not understand your arguement.

If something is paid in cash, in full, then it could have been used towards transit.

That is his point. It wasn't paid in cash in full from general revenues.