News   Dec 20, 2024
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Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

I wouldn't have the slightest problem with that - but guess who are the ones who would? Precisely the ones who can see the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

** Best place to live sound very nice and all, but it is only one measure of success - a rather incomplete one at that. What of economic, social, technological and cultural leadership, if not dominance? These things matters in the hyperglobalized economy, beyond "it's nice place to live".

AoD

Hey, I'm 100% against a Toronto Olympics. It's an unbelievable boondoggle of brobdingnagian proportions.

But throwing extra cash at Caribana to fly the winners of the Barbados Pic-a-de-Crop Soca contest at Crop-Over and the equivalent Trini Carnival singers/bands to Toronto for a huge Panamania-style concert at NPS? That would open up Caribana to a huge new audience of Torontonians! And it would cost much less than $1 million, I'd think.

You can have great things in Toronto without the completely out of proportion cost of an Olympics. And you can have 'economic, social, technological, and cultural leadership', too. Look at our leading edge medical/biological cluster at U of T. Toronto is already a world leader in medicine and medical research.
 
So you're OK with sacrificing neighbourhoods but you can't say which ones? Should we wait for the IOC to tell which ones they've chosen?
 
But throwing extra cash at Caribana to fly the winners of the Barbados Pic-a-de-Crop Soca contest at Crop-Over and the equivalent Trini Carnival singers/bands to Toronto for a huge Panamania-style concert at NPS? That would open up Caribana to a huge new audience of Torontonians! And it would cost much less than $1 million, I'd think.

I am all for funding events with impact properly - but do you seriously compare Caribana with the Olympics in terms of reach?

You can have great things in Toronto without the completely out of proportion cost of an Olympics. And you can have 'economic, social, technological, and cultural leadership', too. Look at our leading edge medical/biological cluster at U of T. Toronto is already a world leader in medicine and medical research.

And how much does that cluster (which is nice, but we aren't anywhere near dominant) actually cost? It's in the umpteen billions - by the way of direct and indirect funding through our health and education system, leveraging additional resources from private and other sectors. It's certainly not something you can cheap out on - and that's the point, none of these things are cheap, but they are, in the right hands, effective in advancing the city.

AoD
 
The Japanese Prime Minister has put his foot down and basically scrapped their current Olympic stadium plans, and ordered them to start all over again. From this link:

The Japanese government has decided to scrap its controversial design for the stadium for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and Paralympics.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said his government would "start over from zero".

The original design, by British architect Zaha Hadid, had come under criticism as estimated building costs almost doubled, reaching $2bn (£1.3bn)

Mr Abe says the new stadium will still be completed in time for the games.

However, the delay means that the stadium will no longer be ready in time for the 2019 Rugby World Cup, which Japan is also hosting.

World Rugby said it was "extremely disappointed" and was "urgently seeking further detailed clarification".

Japanese officials say the contract with Zaha Hadid's architecture firm will be cancelled, and a new design chosen within six months.

Zaha Hadid Architects said that the stadium the firm had designed could be built cost-effectively.

"It is not the case that the recently reported cost increases are due to the design," the firm said in a statement.

The real challenges were "increases in construction costs in Tokyo and a fixed deadline", it said, adding that building costs in Tokyo were higher than many other places as the risk of earthquakes meant that strict safety standards were needed.

Under the original plans, Tokyo's stadium would have been bigger and more expensive than any of its recent predecessors.

It drew increasing criticism as estimated costs spiralled from $1bn to $2bn.

The futuristic design of the stadium also drew attention, with architects likening it to a turtle or a bicycle helmet.

Announcing the cancellation on Friday, Mr Abe said: "I have been listening to the voices of the people and the athletes for about a month now, thinking about the possibility of a review."

"We must go back to the drawing board," he added. "The cost has just ballooned too much."

He said that he had made the decision after being assured that it was still possible to complete construction of a new design in time for the Olympics.

Dame Zaha Hadid has won several architectural awards, including the 2004 Pritzker Architecture Prize and the 2010 and 2011 Stirling Prizes.

She designed the London Aquatics Centre for the London 2012 Olympics and Paralympics, as well as Qatar's Al-Wakrah stadium for the 2022 football World Cup.

Commentators have described her projects as exuberant, extravagant and striking.

However, it is not the first time one of her designs exceeded the initial budget - the London Aquatics Centre's budget more than tripled from its initial budget of $116m (£75m).

Earthquakes shouldn't be that much of a risk in Ontario.
 
I am all for funding events with impact properly - but do you seriously compare Caribana with the Olympics in terms of reach?

And how much does that cluster (which is nice, but we aren't anywhere near dominant) actually cost? It's in the umpteen billions - by the way of direct and indirect funding through our health and education system, leveraging additional resources from private and other sectors. It's certainly not something you can cheap out on - and that's the point, none of these things are cheap, but they are, in the right hands, effective in advancing the city.

AoD

Well, I guess it depends what you mean by 'reach'. Filipinos will see the Olympics and not go to London, much less Toronto. But they probably have a better view of Barcelona than they used to have, so I guess there's that. Whereas the leverage of spending some dollars on Caribana to get more New Yorkers / Chicagoans to put it on their 'must do' summer party list (like Mardi Gras in New Orleans-ish) would have a direct impact on sustainable, year after year tourism dollars in Toronto.

As for my UofT example -- seriously, public funding is the way we fund health and education in Canada. Unless you want to change that, saying that it 'costs us more money than an Olympics' is a straw man, at best. Because, except when we do Olympic boondoggles, our sports entertainment is (a) way less important than health and education and (b) (supposedly) privately funded.

And, having said all of that, I've railed against the 'we need to raise our profile' silliness in numerous threads, but one last time: UofT is a Top 25 university worldwide, in great part due to its medical/doctoral programs. Toronto is already a mid-teens ranked Alpha city. We don't need to spend $10 billion to 'raise our profile.'
 
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Arguing that Toronto needs the Olympics to be a world-class city is like saying you need a black-tie wedding at the Four Seasons to have a strong marriage.
 
In the big picture the economics are irrelevant. Money is spent and money is made with or without hosting large international events. Cities host large international events primarily for two reasons: for international prestige; and to provide a firm deadline to get major infrastructure projects complete by.
 
I was going to dig up this info. Thanks for saving me the time. :)

Regarding the stadium, I think that it would be realistic to consider building it for Toronto FC. At their rate of growth, they're going to need a proper stadium by the time the Olympics come around anyway. BMO Field is arguably just a bunch of glorified bleachers. If Toronto's bid remains focused on the Portlands, there will certainly be a legacy of rapid transit so getting to the new stadium wouldn't be the problem that putting Toronto FC out in the remote Portlands would be today. The Argos could stay at Exhibition Place or move with TFC to the new stadium.

Does TFC have enough supporters for a big stadium? I mean, I guess the stadium could be built to allow for seating to be reduced, but would it not be too big?

Personally, as a Blue Jays fan I'd love to see a new ballpark, although it looks like they'll be stuck at the Rogers Centre for the foreseeable future. Still, they could do what the Braves did with their stadium. A ballpark at the Portlands, in the style of PNC Park, or AT&T Park , would be amazing.

pnc_park_view.jpg


san_francisco_giants_att_park-9610.jpg
 
Well, it's a private facility now, they will have to figure out how to do it on their own dime. In any case what's the condition of the roof? Perhaps they could replace at least some of it with ETFE?

AoD
 
What would be the feasibility of a joint Toronto-Montreal Summer Olympics? Or Toronto-Montreal x Tremblant Winter Olympics?

I doubt you can have the latter arrangement - Quebec City is the one aiming for that I believe, not Montreal. As to the joint summer bid - it sounds like more trouble than it's worth and why share the limelight and dilute the benefit to us when we'd have to incur probably the majority of the cost anyways? You know Toronto will end up being the second fiddle once Montreal is involved.

AoD
 
It's unlikely a joint bid where venues are separated by 500+km is going to win against a more compact plan from a city like Paris.
 

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