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Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

AlvinofDiaspar said:
And of course, we're told that not having the Olympics will somehow redirect the public imagination to these things, leading to Nirvana. Obviously that happened. If only they could have directed their energies to more than the vaulted "resistance", the world would be a much better place.
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In case you haven't noticed, Toronto is already considered to be one of the best places in the world to live. We're in the midst of a seemingly endless construction boom that has resulted in a huge economic boost but also very high labour costs in the construction industry. We don't need the Olympics - or any other massive infusion of debt-financed government spending on otherwise unproductive assets - to revitalize the city.

Remember that little thing called Caribana? It's happening in two weeks. The whole thing costs about $1 million to organize, attracts around 300,000 non-Canadian visitors and contributes over $400 million every single year to the local economy. Of course there are no massive infrastructure projects so you all ignore it (and similar events) while salivating over the prospect of an Olympic bid. Maybe we should consider giving Caribana or Pride an extra $1 million before diving into this Olympic business.
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
In case you haven't noticed, Toronto is already considered to be one of the best places in the world to live. We're in the midst of a seemingly endless construction boom that has resulted in a huge economic boost but also very high labour costs in the construction industry. We don't need the Olympics - or any other massive infusion of debt-financed government spending on otherwise unproductive assets - to revitalize the city.
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And yes, we're also told that we are one of the best places in the world to live** back in the 80s (the city that works, etc, etc), when the city was under a similar boom - and guess what, we failed to leverage on our successes, became self-satisifed, did nothing and it lead to two decades of disinvestment which we are now paying for dearly. Resting on one's laurels is the surest path to decline and irrelevance.

Remember that little thing called Caribana? It's happening in two weeks. The whole thing costs about $1 million to organize, attracts around 300,000 non-Canadian visitors and contributes over $400 million every single year to the local economy. Of course there are no massive infrastructure projects so you all ignore it (and similar events) while salivating over the prospect of an Olympic bid. Maybe we should consider giving Caribana or Pride an extra $1 million before diving into this Olympic business.
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I wouldn't have the slightest problem with that - but guess who are the ones who would? Precisely the ones who can see the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

** Best place to live sound very nice and all, but it is only one measure of success - a rather incomplete one at that. What of economic, social, technological and cultural leadership, if not dominance? These things matters in the hyperglobalized economy, beyond "it's nice place to live".

AoD
 
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TOperson said:
I figure the thing to do is enjoy the seven-year Rationalization Championships leading up to the actual Olympics, watch for milestones like the first person to complain that their small retail business has been destroyed by all the nearby construction, the first person to find out the Olympics the need the land their house is on so they're getting turfed, and of course the increasing obfuscation re: the true budget. Wheee!
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Are you trolling or something? The 2008 bid required no razing of private homes, and as people here have pointed out there is an abundance of space for venues. You can express your disdain for the Olympics without fabricating these absurd statements.

Also, the perception that Olympic games always lose money is more hyperbole. I'm not going to pretend that there isn't some manipulation of numbers to make it look better on the books and many costs/profits are difficult to measure, but as you can see many games have indeed posted profits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games
 
P23 said:
Are you trolling or something? The 2008 bid required no razing of private homes, and as people here have pointed out there is an abundance of space for venues. You can express your disdain for the Olympics without fabricating these absurd statements.
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Indeed. And let's not pretend razing private homes is somehow an Olympics thing - the city/province expropriate private property (with compensation) for various infrastructure projects (e.g. Eglinton LRT).

AoD
 
P23 said:
Are you trolling or something? The 2008 bid required no razing of private homes, and as people here have pointed out there is an abundance of space for venues. You can express your disdain for the Olympics without fabricating these absurd statements.

Also, the perception that Olympic games always lose money is more hyperbole. I'm not going to pretend that there isn't some manipulation of numbers to make it look better on the books and many costs/profits are difficult to measure, but as you can see many games have indeed posted profits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games
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The bids don't involve razing homes, preparing for the actual Olympics does. It's a bait-and-switch. It happened in London and Sochi, not in the distant past.

Of course the IOC makes a profit. It's a private for-profit organization. There is no other reason for them to do this. But the governments just spend and spend and spend and communities don't see any benefit from the spending, nothing they couldn't have gotten another way at a fraction of the price.

But now I see that AoD thinks expropriation of private property is OK. So great! Let's talk about which neighbourhoods we are willing to sacrifice to the Olympics.
 
TOperson said:
The bids don't involve razing homes, preparing for the actual Olympics does. It's a bait-and-switch. It happened in London and Sochi, not in the distant past.
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So? You can point out many games where homes were not expropriated as well. I don't recall anything like that occurring in Vancouver. I also don't recall anything like that happening for the Pan Am games we have now. You sound delusional when you claim that a bid that has almost every venue in parking lots and empty fields will somehow require kicking people out of their homes.
 
tiffer24 said:
Watch out, AoD. Anyone who dissents could end up in an IOC-sponsored concentration camp!
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Yeah, the MiniProp at the Olympics Village, built under the ashes of someone's neighbourhood! Facetiousness aside, one should look at the Pan Am model instead - where there will be a net gain of social housing without any intrusion into existing neighbourhoods.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Yeah, the MiniProp at the Olympics Village, built under the ashes of someone's neighbourhood! Facetiousness aside, one should look at the Pan Am model instead - where there will be a net gain of social housing without any intrusion into existing neighbourhoods.

AoD
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No Olympics follows the Pan Am model (if there even is such a thing, the Pan Ams are so irrelevant).

It's extremely weird that so many commenters here dismiss out of hand the actual lived experience of Olympics host cities, to whom all the same promises were made as are being made to Toronto now.

It's like the girl who dates the guy who has a terrible reputation for cheating on his girlfriends and draining their bank accounts, but somehow thinks he'll treat her better.
 
TOperson said:
The unimportant neighbourhoods will be the first to go, so you're in luck.
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You got to love someone who preach neighbourhood sanctity and then immediately turn around and disses it. I tend not to take anyone who does that terribly seriously.

It's extremely weird that so many commenters here dismiss out of hand the actual lived experience of Olympics host cities, to whom all the same promises were made as are being made to Toronto now.
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What's the "actual lived experience"? Comparing what, Beijing to Vancouver to London to whatnot is completely meaningless without consideration to context.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
You got to love someone who preach neighbourhood sanctity and then immediately turn around and disses it.



What's the "actual lived experience"? Comparing what, Beijing to Vancouver to London to whatnot is completely meaningless without consideration to context.

AoD
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I never preached neighbourhood sanctity. I was the first to bring up sacrificing them. We just need to work out which ones. Why don't you actually name some, since you think it's OK?

You don't know what "actual lived experience" means? That explains a lot.
 
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