Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

TOAF, why the $200mn difference between those documents and NatPost's $700mn figure? Does the latter include other costs or facilities?

 

[TOareaFan]

TOAF, why the $200mn difference between those documents and NatPost's $700mn figure? Does the latter include other costs or facilities?

really not sure

 

[TOperson]

TOAF, why the $200mn difference between those documents and NatPost's $700mn figure? Does the latter include other costs or facilities?

This kind of accounting, where it's not quite clear which costs include what and what budget that chunk of money comes from and so on, seems to be the norm for large-scale sporting events. Deliberate obfuscation.

 

[MafaldaBoy]

Markham Pan-Am Centre | 03 November 2013:

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

So, despite my never-ending kvetching about the costs, I'll enjoy at least one event at this Games. I was at BMO Field yesterday for the Maori/Canada match, and despite the cold it was lots o' fun. I will definitely be there to watch some of the 7s -- Canada, US, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay should all put decent teams on the field, and Canada should be a favourite for a gold medal.

 

[TOareaFan]

So, despite my never-ending kvetching about the costs, I'll enjoy at least one event at this Games. I was at BMO Field yesterday for the Maori/Canada match, and despite the cold it was lots o' fun. I will definitely be there to watch some of the 7s -- Canada, US, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay should all put decent teams on the field, and Canada should be a favourite for a gold medal.

It was a blast yesterday...wasn't it!

Great irony that our national soccer stadium will become a rugby park for the games while we build a new stadium for soccer notwithstanding....looking forward to seeing some world class rugger during the PanAms too!

 

[intoronto1125]

So, despite my never-ending kvetching about the costs, I'll enjoy at least one event at this Games. I was at BMO Field yesterday for the Maori/Canada match, and despite the cold it was lots o' fun. I will definitely be there to watch some of the 7s -- Canada, US, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay should all put decent teams on the field, and Canada should be a favourite for a gold medal.

Sorry but Paraguay won't qualify.

 

[TOareaFan]

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...-to-be-named-official-grocer-of-pan-am-games/

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Sorry but Paraguay won't qualify.

Uhh… why? Limited number of teams? Quasi-dictatorship? Crappy uniforms?

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

I believe they'll struggle to qualify for the tournament - they finished 7th in the latest 7's tournament out of 10

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-to-cover-extra-cost-of-toronto-2015-pan-am-games-1.1552298

The largest portion of the extra $1.1 billion is $700 million to build the athletes village in Toronto. The province hopes to recoup $65 million when the units are turned into 253 affordable rental apartments, an 8,000-square-foot YMCA and 500 residences for George Brown College students after the games.

Provincial officials also revealed the security budget for the Pan Am Games is $206 million, a fraction of the nearly $900 million spent on security at the Vancouver Olympics, but cautioned the figures are not final "and are likely to change."

There is a lower risk profile for the Pan Am Games and not nearly as many so-called high-profile targets as at the Olympics, they said to explain the security budget.

However, the Progressive Conservatives said the security costs seem way too low.

"Clearly these games, whenever they happen around the world they cost a fair bit more than $206 million for security," said PC Pan Am critic Rod Jackson. "If they keep going like this the total cost will approach $3 billion.

The province also announced the transportation budget for the games would be up to $90 million to shuttle athletes and officials to the various venues, which stretch from Niagara to as far north as the Orillia area and as far east as Oshawa.

There may be dedicated "priority lanes" on Toronto area highways to make sure the athletes can get to and from events, but officials said it's possible they would be implemented only when traffic is congested, not for the entire duration of the games.

The government will try not to inconvenience regular commuters when it takes steps to transport the athletes to events, said Transportation Minister Glen Murray.

"We'll be looking at HOV and flow lanes, but we're managing a delicate balance here," he said. "We do not want to crowd out our own citizens during an international event."

 

[TOareaFan]

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-to-cover-extra-cost-of-toronto-2015-pan-am-games-1.1552298

These articles floating around today calling the $2.5B budget an "extra $1.1B" really are bothering me......particularly when the very same media outlets/sources printed articles in 2009 stating that the total cost was projected at $2.4B.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/t-o-wins-its-bid-to-host-2015-pan-am-games-1.451458

The Pan Am Games will cost $2.4 billion: $1.4 billion for the event and another $1 billion for an athlete's village. The plan is to convert it to a mixed-income neighbourhood after the games.

 

[innsertnamehere]

exactly, this doesn't come as a surprise, the pan am village costs have always been presented.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

exactly, this doesn't come as a surprise, the pan am village costs have always been presented.

OK, but other than to obfuscate, why exactly were they always presented separately? That's patently ridiculous. And you wonder why those of us who think sporting facilities are usually a waste of money get our knickers in a knot.

 

[TOareaFan]

OK, but other than to obfuscate, why exactly were they always presented separately? That's patently ridiculous. And you wonder why those of us who think sporting facilities are usually a waste of money get our knickers in a knot.

I can only guess they were presented separately because they are quite different in funding, function and post game usage.

The facilities built for the games are all being financed through j/vs between the feds, the province and municipalities or institutions. The village adds in a component of private sector financing into the mix.

Post games, the facilities built for the games become sporting legacies and/or (depending on your perspective) cash drains. The housing built for the village becomes either market condos for sale or affordable housing as part of mixed use area/development.

Co-mingling those budgets would have just led to the concern that money raised from the sale of the private units was not going to support housing but, rather, supporting those "white elephant" sporting venues.

I am quite comfortable with the two budget approach in situations like this. I get, however, that some might not be.

What I can't stomach, though, is media and opposition critics (and, I should declare, I generally {almost exclusively} vote conservative) lying about the amount over budget these games are, or may be, by conveniently forgetting that the total of the two budgets back in 2009 is very close to what the games seem to be costing now.

Like I said, I am no "liberal" but hearing that in 2009 they created a budget for something like this with very little at the time but a vision and blank piece of paper and that they are now within 5% of that budget is something I am more inclined to congratulate them on than criticize them on.

I get why the opposition might stretch the truth a bit but I have no idea why the media is doing so. I asked this question of Paul Bliss (he was the voice on the recent "$1.1B over budget" piece on CTV) why he would say this when his own network showed the cost in 2009 as $2.4B and he has, to this point, chosen to ignore the question.