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Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

The Sun are taking a run at the expense accounts of the TO2015 organizing committee

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/28/mounting-expenses-for-toronto-pan-am-games-executives

It is a bit of a slush fund - although the overall costs are minor in comparison to failed/delayed infrastructure projects, the execs still need to understand the optics of this.

Any private corporation do not have 'entertainment' expense budgets unless the position entails new revenue generation i.e. sales. I think the same concept should apply. Although after hours meetings are probably cheaper than full on work meetings.
 
Any private corporation do not have 'entertainment' expense budgets unless the position entails new revenue generation i.e. sales. I think the same concept should apply. Although after hours meetings are probably cheaper than full on work meetings.

Every private corporation has 'new revenue generation' as its overarching goal. You cannot say the same about the Pan Ams, so why would you hold them to the same standard as a private corporation.

Notwithstanding the above, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone thinks the big banks' 'entertainment' and 'marketing' budgets would hold up to any scrutiny. If the expense budgets followed the letter of the Ontario law, the Sun should go soak its head. Not that SAL or the Sun will.
 
I do find it funny that right wing publications like the Sun always call for government "to be run like a business" only to find out that these lavish expenses are actually a byproduct of the corporate culture of tax-deductible expense accounts. In my current private sector gig I am always amazed by the extent to which our senior management spends on lunches and entertainment. "Tuesday lunch at Barbarians? Don't worry, it's a tax write off!"
 
I do find it funny that right wing publications like the Sun always call for government "to be run like a business" only to find out that these lavish expenses are actually a byproduct of the corporate culture of tax-deductible expense accounts. In my current private sector gig I am always amazed by the extent to which our senior management spends on lunches and entertainment. "Tuesday lunch at Barbarians? Don't worry, it's a tax write off!"
I find "fiscal conservative" governance very funny. There are usually spendthrifts in any fiscal conservative group, especially those who are in power (note Rob Ford's subways and Harper's F35 jets).
 
The expenses are not a "right" or "left" issue...it is common sense and respect and I think Premier Wynne's response yesterday was appropriate.

I think, generally, people understand that games are expensive to put on and that travel is needed/expected in order to host these things and, yes, that travel is, both, frequent and expensive. But when you see relatively highly paid people expense trivial daily things you wonder how careful they are with the bigger things. So, ironically, it is the small items that bring the scrutiny and the public ire.

This part of the Sun's story caught my eye in this regard:

While on her way the second time, Freeman — who made $174,150 in 2011 and left the organization in 2012 — charged taxpayers for her $1.89 cup of Starbucks coffee.

Barb Anderson, the team’s chief financial officer — who made a not-too-shabby $304,156 in 2011 — also treated herself to two $1.89 cups of Starbucks tea at taxpayers’ expense while in Guadalajara.

I work in an industry where we travel a bit for business and we expense certain items. Expenses for items caused by travel are routinely covered but we are expected to, and do, apply a common sense test.....that is "would you have incurred that expense personally were you not traveling".

So, for example, coffee at Starbucks. If I take a client for a quick coffee meeting to talk over business I could (I say could because I rarely expense something that small....not worth the bother) expense that. But if I am enjoying some free time and I just pop into a SB for a cup of joe...then, no that is not expensable because it is no different than what I might do at home were I not on the business trip.

This sort of trivial expensing is particularly irksome to taxpayers as the salaries of the individuals involved are well above the average citizen who is, via their taxes, funding this venture. Yet someone making over $300k a year who happens to want a cup of tea takes the time to collect the slip of paper and then include it in their expense claim for the trip? When you see that you have a right to be very skeptical about all of the expenses and get the sense of "entitlement" that people are expressing anger towards.
 
The expenses are not a "right" or "left" issue...it is common sense and respect and I think Premier Wynne's response yesterday was appropriate.

I think, generally, people understand that games are expensive to put on and that travel is needed/expected in order to host these things and, yes, that travel is, both, frequent and expensive. But when you see relatively highly paid people expense trivial daily things you wonder how careful they are with the bigger things. So, ironically, it is the small items that bring the scrutiny and the public ire.

This part of the Sun's story caught my eye in this regard:



I work in an industry where we travel a bit for business and we expense certain items. Expenses for items caused by travel are routinely covered but we are expected to, and do, apply a common sense test.....that is "would you have incurred that expense personally were you not traveling".

So, for example, coffee at Starbucks. If I take a client for a quick coffee meeting to talk over business I could (I say could because I rarely expense something that small....not worth the bother) expense that. But if I am enjoying some free time and I just pop into a SB for a cup of joe...then, no that is not expensable because it is no different than what I might do at home were I not on the business trip.

This sort of trivial expensing is particularly irksome to taxpayers as the salaries of the individuals involved are well above the average citizen who is, via their taxes, funding this venture. Yet someone making over $300k a year who happens to want a cup of tea takes the time to collect the slip of paper and then include it in their expense claim for the trip? When you see that you have a right to be very skeptical about all of the expenses and get the sense of "entitlement" that people are expressing anger towards.

Seriously, why let it bother you? How do you do expenses on a trip? I put all my receipts in my wallet, take them all out at my desk a week later and put them in a spreadsheet form sent to the bean counters. If you have a tea and a donut and call it breakfast, would that be better? Who cares.

OTOH, here's a fun one:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news.../article14624196/comments/#dashboard/follows/

Apparently, the athlete's village isn't in the budget. I had thought the village was going to be sold 100% as market condos, giving Dundee a profit on the buildings and the gov't doesn't have a cost associated, but no one says that in this article. In fact, they talk a lot about students, social housing, etc. Was I misinformed? Are these building not market condos post-games? Hahaha... price just doubled.

Get out the 202x Olympic banners -- we'll need a new round of things to waste money on by then.
 
I had thought the village was going to be sold 100% as market condos, giving Dundee a profit on the buildings and the gov't doesn't have a cost associated, but no one says that in this article. In fact, they talk a lot about students, social housing, etc. Was I misinformed? Are these building not market condos post-games? Hahaha... price just doubled.

Get out the 202x Olympic banners -- we'll need a new round of things to waste money on by then.

From the construction thread here - http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/12822

Infrastructure Ontario recently released an RFP for planning, design and compliance services for the Pan Am Athlete's Village. The buildings constructed must serve dual purposes of being home to the approximately 8,500 athletes & coaches participating in the 2015 Pan Am Games and then serving as 2,100 homes for renters, students and new home buyers following the games. The Athlete's Village will total approximately 2 million square feet with all facilities planned for LEED Gold.
 
Notwithstanding the above, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone thinks the big banks' 'entertainment' and 'marketing' budgets would hold up to any scrutiny. If the expense budgets followed the letter of the Ontario law, the Sun should go soak its head. Not that SAL or the Sun will.

Major difference? It's not my mandatory tax dollars paying for it. Good for the big banks for making a profit, they can blow it all for all I care. But the government that institutes mandatory payments to fund these 'elective' games, there needs to be more prudence.
 
Seriously, why let it bother you? How do you do expenses on a trip? I put all my receipts in my wallet, take them all out at my desk a week later and put them in a spreadsheet form sent to the bean counters. If you have a tea and a donut and call it breakfast, would that be better? Who cares.

OTOH, here's a fun one:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news.../article14624196/comments/#dashboard/follows/

Apparently, the athlete's village isn't in the budget. I had thought the village was going to be sold 100% as market condos, giving Dundee a profit on the buildings and the gov't doesn't have a cost associated, but no one says that in this article. In fact, they talk a lot about students, social housing, etc. Was I misinformed? Are these building not market condos post-games? Hahaha... price just doubled.

Get out the 202x Olympic banners -- we'll need a new round of things to waste money on by then.

Who ever was the Minister at the time of the budgeting/approval process sure was handed a LARGE sum of money....
 
Seriously, why let it bother you? How do you do expenses on a trip? I put all my receipts in my wallet, take them all out at my desk a week later and put them in a spreadsheet form sent to the bean counters. If you have a tea and a donut and call it breakfast, would that be better? Who cares.

I have tea and a donut by myself...no, I don't expense it......no one here does because, as I said, whether you are travelling on company time/dime or not...you would still eat breakfast.

It is not the amounts that bother me (obviously they are small) it is the arrogant/entitled attitude it reveals. Get a good job - check. Get a good salary - check. Public money - check. Yep...they should pay for my cup of tea at the airport. Like I said above, the big numbers are likely explainable...but these actions (staff dinners quarterly?) make you wonder and inquire.


OTOH, here's a fun one:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news.../article14624196/comments/#dashboard/follows/

Apparently, the athlete's village isn't in the budget. I had thought the village was going to be sold 100% as market condos, giving Dundee a profit on the buildings and the gov't doesn't have a cost associated, but no one says that in this article. In fact, they talk a lot about students, social housing, etc. Was I misinformed? Are these building not market condos post-games? Hahaha... price just doubled.

Get out the 202x Olympic banners -- we'll need a new round of things to waste money on by then.

It was always my understanding that the village was a separate budget as what was built was going to create a mixed housing development of public and market units.
 
Major difference? It's not my mandatory tax dollars paying for it. Good for the big banks for making a profit, they can blow it all for all I care. But the government that institutes mandatory payments to fund these 'elective' games, there needs to be more prudence.

That's ridiculous. The outrage is over a $1.89 expense - your mandatory tax dollars couldn't possibly be so valuable as to worry about 1/3,000,000th of $1.89.
 
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That's ridiculous. The outrage is over a $1.89 expense - your mandatory tax dollars couldn't possibly be so valuable as to worry about 1/3,000,000th of $1.89.

I think what the outrage is about is the juxtaposition of a $300k+ salary and the feeling that, on top of that, we should be paying for their cups of tea just because they happen to be travelling.
 
I think what the outrage is about is the juxtaposition of a $300k+ salary and the feeling that, on top of that, we should be paying for their cups of tea just because they happen to be travelling.

That's why I can't get jiggy with the innumerate. Get outraged about the $300k+ salary all you want. Getting outraged about a cup of tea is Fordian. That is, beyond stupid. And dangerous, as it makes you elect incompetents.
 
Yes, and the next thing we need to look at in terms of city hall expenses would be the free soap and toilet paper that's dispensed in public washrooms. As a taxpayer, why can't we expect people to supply their own. I resent that! :mad:
You also forgot the water used to flush the toilet and wash hands, unless the water is untreated rainwater.
 

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