TO is now 2nd most expensive city in North America

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The irony of that statement, considering how much more expensive property is in Vancouver compared to Toronto.

But of course, if you are buying in MacKenzie, BC, you might get a lot for a little...

In the meantime, do enjoy your time here in a city going nowhere fast that chokes you to death while you dream about that 700 sq. ft condo in some nice place in BC. I sure will take pleasure in your time here!

AoD

 

[urbanboom]

I'm just a little curious.

I'm pretty new to this forum, (thus the "Newbie" sign plastered on the top of this post). But why, does there seem so many "I hate Toronto" crap on a forum called urbanTORONTO?
I thought this was a place were people came to discuss how to improve the city, not leave it.

 

[Jayomatic]

We all have ideas about how to improve the city but when the fall on deaf ears, it can be a little frustrating.

We all love Toronto but many of us get fed up when changes to improve the city are passed by.

I think you could have called this site Urban New York, Urban London, etc, and you would still have people discussing issues and ideas to improve the city.

 

[Granny]

Are you saying you think Toronto is 'world class?' I'm not sure I get your meaning?

You would seriously put Toronto in the same class as New York, Paris, or Berlin? Is that your opinion?

ABSOLUTELY!

I always love reading these types of comments. Why? I like watching clowns at the circus. I get a chuckle when I hear a silly whiner. Someone wants to make a fool of himself, then I'm prepared to be entertained.
One of the most important things I notice everytime I'm in New York and I happen to really really admire..
Attitude.
That town has attitude. You will never hear people discussing where they stand in the grand pecking order of cities on this planet and you will never read about it anywhere. They KNOW where they stand. They consider Manhattan to be the centre of the universe. End of discussion. Nobody there really gives a crap what the rest of the world thinks.
We could use a healthy dose of that. The self deprecating comments from those above are so ..lame. Slowly but surely we are starting to shake off our our collective inferiority complex. More and more of us are learning to laugh off the whiners, who thankfully, are becoming less and less.
Spend any serious time in some of the 'great' cities and you would realize how truly special this city is. Talk to anyone who has made Toronto his home, either by birthplace or choice. If they have been away from it for a year or two, they will tell how great it is to be be back.

 

[Dichotomy]

There is a fine line between pride and arrogance. Toronto has a lot to be proud of, but there is no way in hell it is in the same class as Berlin, London, Paris or New York. NO measurement.
The danger of elevating Toronto to that stature is that politicians can then go around patting themselve on the back like it is a job well done - or a job that is complete.
New York darned well deserves its attitude: it has the biggest, best and most of nearly everything.

Being the 2nd most expensive city in North America is not one of the things I would want to brag about.

This is not about Toronto bashing. This is about making Toronto better so one day it will be in the same league as New York and the rest.

 

[Whoaccio]

1.) Toronto is not, in fact, the second most expensive city in N. America. At least not in any serious terms. It is really just a case of horribly bad timing. For starters, Canada's dollar appreciated nearly 70% over the past few years, in effect raising the value of everything measured in CAD (like real estate) 70%. You can argue about whether a strong CAD is good or bad, but it doesn't really have anything to do with Toronto. During the period this data was collected ('06-'07) Toronto (Canada, really) was also in an extended housing boom. That in of itself wouldn't be relevant if not that the USA (LA & Florida in particular) has been in a housing collapse that has seen values decline by upwards of 20%. What cities has Toronto dethroned? Surprise, surprise, LA & Miami. Assuming a correction in the TO real estate market (already signs of this) and a rebound in the US housing market Toronto will return to it's realistic place as 4th or 5th most expensive city, which is reasonable

2.) Toronto is not in the "Big Four". No matter who we elect, what road we widen or how much subway we build Toronto will not seriously compete with NYC, London, Paris or Tokyo in the next 100 years. For starters, there is a plain population issue. The GTA would have to double or triple in population to compete, at least 15-20m in the area. Barring some kind of mass migration, that isn't happening in this century. More over, Canada lacks the economic framework to host a "big four" city. Canada itself would need to be at least 60-80m to support such a city. There would also need to be a serious change in regulation. For instance, London has made most of it's recent fortunes by catering to international finance. There are no incentives for international finance in Toronto as Federal legislation
prohibits foreign banks from truly competing. I've often thought Toronto could try to pull a Hong Kong (i.e. separate from Canada and implement a hyper-libertarian economic agenda, basically try to poach companies from all over N.A) but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

3.) Toronto competes with: Berlin, Amsterdam, Chicago, Madrid and the like. In some respects we are doing better than many western cities outside of Spain. Berlin is a fiscal nightmare which probably has more debt than all of Ontario. It's economy is contracting and, no matter how much money the Germans throw at them, the former areas under communist control are notably worse and show no signs of improving. There are also social issues related to the modest levels of immigration. It's easy to forget that, but compared to the race riots that happen in Europe, Toronto looks pretty good. Educationally, Toronto is pretty impressive as well. UofT is a bona fide global university. It isn't Cambridge, but out of "second tier" global cities we do pretty well. San Fran & Boston beat us, but outside of them we are pretty high up there.

Culturally and historically... I think Toronto falls down. This is the most subjective component, so ranking is a bit irrelevant. Suffice to say Toronto obviously lacks the history of a city like Berlin or Rome. I don't think we have the cultural institutions either to compare to Berlin. The TIFF is a refreshing success though, so hopefully this will improve. Either way, out of the components of Economics, Education, Politics and Culture, I think culture is the main area we could improve in (don't put up banners reading "live with culture").

 

[lordmandeep]

Toronto is not, in fact, the second most expensive city in N. America. At least not in any serious terms. It is really just a case of horribly bad timing. For starters, Canada's dollar appreciated nearly 70% over the past few years,

An increase from 65% to 1.00 is 53%...

 

[Whoaccio]

Highpoint was 1.10 USD from a low point of 0.65 USD, which is a gain of 0.45 USD.

(0.45/0.65) = 69.2%, I eyeballed the first figure but I was close enough to give the gist.

Even if it was 53%, would it really change anything? My point that Canadian real estate value has been inflated due the strong CAD.

 

[lordmandeep]

still they are quite high, nonetheless...

Especially now, but in big cities like Houston and Atlanta you buy a new 2500 sq foot suburban home for like 200k...

 

[Whoaccio]

still they are quite high, nonetheless...

Especially now, but in big cities like Houston and Atlanta you buy a new 2500 sq foot suburban home for like 200k...

It might have something to do with:

 

[confusion]

An increase from 65% to 1.00 is 53%...

AND before 65% we were around 75% to 85%. So there was a depreciation first...

 

[MisterF]

There is a fine line between pride and arrogance. Toronto has a lot to be proud of, but there is no way in hell it is in the same class as Berlin, London, Paris or New York. NO measurement.
The danger of elevating Toronto to that stature is that politicians can then go around patting themselve on the back like it is a job well done - or a job that is complete.
New York darned well deserves its attitude: it has the biggest, best and most of nearly everything.

Being the 2nd most expensive city in North America is not one of the things I would want to brag about.

This is not about Toronto bashing. This is about making Toronto better so one day it will be in the same league as New York and the rest.

You bash Toronto every chance you get. Why the need to constantly say Toronto isn't in the same league as New York and Paris? Nobody's saying it is. Toronto is, however in the same league as Berlin, easily. It's a tier above Berlin according to the GAWC (yes, somebody had to mention it). Berlin isn't nearly as globally important as you think, it's not even the most important city in Germany.

 

[Dichotomy]

You bash Toronto every chance you get. Why the need to constantly say Toronto isn't in the same league as New York and Paris? Nobody's saying it is. Toronto is, however in the same league as Berlin, easily. It's a tier above Berlin according to the GAWC (yes, somebody had to mention it). Berlin isn't nearly as globally important as you think, it's not even the most important city in Germany.

Okay, let me drag out the 3rd post in this thread, from ducati0000:

"If I had the money I be in Vancouver.Toronto is my birth place but Vancouver is where I can really have the best of both worlds (nature and city living).I'm so tired of Toronto trying to pass it self as a "world class city",it was clean and safe once but that was 10 years ago.Unless we get people who can actually plan a city for the future instead of patch work BS we might be in the same league as the true "world class cities" on this planet.Toronto is a true melting pot of all the races on this world that actually gets a long but we have too many people who has large egos and personally agendas to make this a great city.

In my subsequent postings, I merely replied to this one. I have heard Mayor Miller look to London for its solutions to its traffic problems, which is ludicrous, considering London's size, population and history. Most of Toronto was built AFTER the automobile became important, so our lack of planning is more obvious.
Forgive me if I seem to be overly negative towards Toronto, but its only because I have lived here most of my life and witnessed its decline. It's the armchair critics who don't live here, or who visit once in a while who feel they know what is good for this city.
If Toronto is the 2nd most expensive city in North America and the 401 is the busiest highway in North America (which has been well documented, BTW) then something is seriously amiss. Clearly, our taxes, real estate, and cost of living are out whack, if we have beaten cities like Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston as more expensive.
The more one travels, the more one realizes what a mess this city has become, and unless the trend is reversed there will be a backlash where money, jobs and people will leave this city. By some measures, this is already happening.
Do you think the Mayor of Detroit would have thought its mess today was possible when looked at from the vantage point of the 1950s when it was one of the most prosperous cities in North America?

I suggest those of you who are piling on should go back and read some of the other threads on this site. Every single thread is rife with personal anecdotes and stories. First of all, it's what makes these forums interesting, and secondly, we are hostages of our vantage points and personal experiences. Everyone filters and sifts their reality based on what they choose to see or hear. Everyone is guilt of that.

What makes a person visionary or a leader is their ability to rise above their personal feelings and do what is right for the common good. I don't see a lot of that in this city, or on UT.

 

[Archivist]

If Toronto is the 2nd most expensive city in North America ... then something is seriously amiss. Lessee here, Winnipeg is pretty cheap, so I guess Winnipeg is successful and not in decline, according to your standards.

Let me re-iterate some things - everyone talks about personal experience - but you have a tendency to prefer personal experience when it suits your own prejudices. You posted some time ago, "If I read about Sao Paulo's crime, then live with friends there and see none - what of that?" and you say, in the same post, "I am not fooled by statistics" - the only possible inference being that Sao Paulo's crime does not exist because you yourself have not experienced it - then we are in seriously deluded territory for which you richly deserve to be mocked at every opporunity.

I can speak for myself in saying that Toronto faces some challenges, and in the long time I have been living here I have seen it worse and better than it is now. You on the other hand, with your "Toronto is in decline" mantra, see everything through a single lens. If we are judged the 10th most important city economically - your response is that is where we belong, nothing more and nothing less. If we are expensive - well, that's a sign of decline.

I daresay if we were cheap to live in, and some studies show that compared with other major cities we are, that would be a sign of decline to you as well. You are very one-note, and rather aggressive at that.

And if traffic is a problem, then clearly Sao Paulo is in major, serious, overwhelming, incredible decline as well.

 

[MisterF]

So Dichotomy, your definition of a world class city is one that's among the top 4 in the world? That's a pretty narrow definition. And a pretty small basis for a rant like that. So many words yet so little said.

Crime rates are among the lowest in Canada and falling. Transit is being expanded again. Population and employment are growing. It's the biggest tourist market in the country. The GAWC ranks Toronto as a top tier beta city, above the likes of Berlin and Boston. Forbes ranked Toronto as the tenth most economically powerful city in the world. Mastercard ranked it the 13th best financial city in the world......but ignore all that, Toronto is the next Detroit.

Right.