Spadina Streetcar Track Repairs (TTC, U/C)

[the lemur]

I think that is where the large yellow "buffers" go to stop cars running onto the new platform.

But some of the rebuilt islands on Spadina (such as the one south of Dundas - wish I'd take a picture) also have a gap in the middle that's like a symmetrical version of the space at the end of that platform on Queen:

/ [space] \

What might that be for?

 

[W. K. Lis]

But some of the rebuilt islands on Spadina (such as the one south of Dundas - wish I'd take a picture) also have a gap in the middle that's like a symmetrical version of the space at the end of that platform on Queen:

/ [space] \

What might that be for?

Another layer of concrete could go on top. When they let the first layer of concrete "rest", then put another layer of concrete on top, they remain "separated". If the top layer of concrete is "damaged", it can be demolished up to the "separation line", and a new layer of concrete put on top, without having to continue digging down.

 

[the lemur]

Another layer of concrete could go on top. When they let the first layer of concrete "rest", then put another layer of concrete on top, they remain "separated". If the top layer of concrete is "damaged", it can be demolished up to the "separation line", and a new layer of concrete put on top, without having to continue digging down.

I wonder if that means a separate piece of infrastructure will be in the concrete that goes in the gap. I guess there aren't any plans of the new islands in circulation?

 

[DSC]

I wonder if that means a separate piece of infrastructure will be in the concrete that goes in the gap. I guess there aren't any plans of the new islands in circulation?

I assume the recently built "islands" at King and Bathurst are the same design so maybe someone can post comparative pictures?

 

[M II A II R II K]

How would the downtown streetcar routes be able to run on those tracks without pantographs since there's no space for them...

 

[drum118]

How would the downtown streetcar routes be able to run on those tracks without pantographs since there's no space for them...

If you walk around the various lines and intersections, You will see TTC has started installing the overhead for pans.

All St Clair loops have been built for pans as well the Bathurst & Vaughan Intersections. Various section of Bathurst is now ready for pans and that is south of Hillcrest.

How high do you think pans have to be for them to work compare to the existing system??

I wish I was able to post the various systems I have seen so far that have pans, but the photos will not be on line until sometime in Sept at present time.

If you go to the video section that I have, you will find various systems to the point there are a few for Nice France showing the pans being raise or lower in 7 second before/after going through the square on battery power.

I have seen pans only a few feet above the car for EMU's due to lower clearance.

 

[nfitz]

All St Clair loops have been built for pans as well the Bathurst & Vaughan Intersections. Various section of Bathurst is now ready for pans and that is south of Hillcrest.

The first prototype LRV is supposed to arrive next month. I've heard whisperings that the first place they'll be seen is on St. Clair. I assume they'll be based in Hillcrest initially. Not sure if there's any intention to let passenger on any before late 2013/early 2014, or if they'll just run them up and down St. Clair to test them and train drivers.

 

[JoeParez]

Not sure if there's any intention to let passenger on any before late 2013/early 2014, or if they'll just run them up and down St. Clair to test them and train drivers.

I believe they're just coming in for testing only. From what I understand it's to see if the prototypes are compatible with the current system, specifically the track layout and curves.

 

[nfitz]

I believe they're just coming in for testing only. From what I understand it's to see if the prototypes are compatible with the current system, specifically the track layout and curves.

I'd think they'd be running on the entire system to check compatibility. What they'd also need to do is train drivers (particularly as the controls are radically different) and put some hours on the test vehicles to see how they do. Probably safer to do this on a reserved right-of-way - and that means either Spadina or St. Clair. Given it's proximity to Hillcrest, St. Clair seem logical, at least for initial training.

But at the same time, I'd think that given how different the vehicles are to the current ones, that at some point early on they'd be wanting to run some with passengers, to see if anything unexpected happens. Either from simply loading issues, or changes in the weight of the vehicle, ramp deployment, etc. Fares might be an issue (though perhaps they should test that too), though you could simply not collect fares during the testing phase. Don't know if they would do any tests with passengers or not ...

 

[the lemur]

I'd think they'd be running on the entire system to check compatibility. What they'd also need to do is train drivers (particularly as the controls are radically different) and put some hours on the test vehicles to see how they do. Probably safer to do this on a reserved right-of-way - and that means either Spadina or St. Clair. Given it's proximity to Hillcrest, St. Clair seem logical, at least for initial training.

But at the same time, I'd think that given how different the vehicles are to the current ones, that at some point early on they'd be wanting to run some with passengers, to see if anything unexpected happens. Either from simply loading issues, or changes in the weight of the vehicle, ramp deployment, etc. Fares might be an issue (though perhaps they should test that too), though you could simply not collect fares during the testing phase. Don't know if they would do any tests with passengers or not ...

They also wouldn't be able to test them out on Spadina until November anyway, because of the track and platform work going on there right now. Which suggests St Clair/Hillcrest. I seem to recall hearing that a spur had been built, or would be, at Hillcrest for delivery of the LRVs and I will post if I see anything interesting.

 

[smallspy]

I'd think they'd be running on the entire system to check compatibility. What they'd also need to do is train drivers (particularly as the controls are radically different) and put some hours on the test vehicles to see how they do. Probably safer to do this on a reserved right-of-way - and that means either Spadina or St. Clair. Given it's proximity to Hillcrest, St. Clair seem logical, at least for initial training.

Training the operators for the vehicles won't happen until they are first accepted by the vehicle design and development department. Which, if judging by the process for the CLRVs and ALRVs, won't happen until late 2013 or early 2014. There are a lot of things that need to be tested before they will be happy with the vehicles, and quite a few of those tests will involve a pair of vehicles.

Hell, now that I think about it, I don't think it's likely that we'll see them on the streets until next spring. They can perform a lot of the preliminary tests in Hillcrest.

But at the same time, I'd think that given how different the vehicles are to the current ones, that at some point early on they'd be wanting to run some with passengers, to see if anything unexpected happens. Either from simply loading issues, or changes in the weight of the vehicle, ramp deployment, etc. Fares might be an issue (though perhaps they should test that too), though you could simply not collect fares during the testing phase. Don't know if they would do any tests with passengers or not ...

You can't put passengers on an operating vehicle until it has been accepted. And it's not likely that we'll even see them in service until there are enough of them to convert the first line over to their operation.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[DSC]

According to Steve Munro, in 2011 and based on 2011 TTC budget, the first routes to get new streetcars in service are Spadina and Bathurst in 2013. St Clair is not due to get them in service until 2016 and Queen till 2017. See http://stevemunro.ca/?p=4948 Things may have changed since then and using St Clair as a test route for non-revenue service makes sense due to easy link to Hillcrest Yard. (Yes, a tender was awarded to build spur track into Hillcrest to get delivery of the new streetcars.) The TTC are also busily installing new overhead on Queen Street (and elsewhere) because until that is done no new streetcars (with pantographs) can run on these lines.

 

[nfitz]

They also wouldn't be able to test them out on Spadina until November anyway, because of the track and platform work going on there right now. Which suggests St Clair/Hillcrest.

No matter where they appear, I'd doubt they'd be leaving the yard until November.

Training the operators for the vehicles won't happen until they are first accepted by the vehicle design and development department. Which, if judging by the process for the CLRVs and ALRVs, won't happen until late 2013 or early 2014. There are a lot of things that need to be tested before they will be happy with the vehicles, and quite a few of those tests will involve a pair of vehicles.

Ah, chicken and egg. Surely the'd have to train a handful of people to run the streetcars before acceptance, or else they'd not be able to test them, themselves, and have to rely on Bombardier staff to run the vehicles. Large-scale training would be in that late-2013 to 2014 timeframe, I'd think though.

You can't put passengers on an operating vehicle until it has been accepted.

But do you want to accept a prototype that is very different than anything ever used before without some real tests? Perhaps they fill them up with TTC staff ...

According to Steve Munro, in 2011 and based on 2011 TTC budget, the first routes to get new streetcars in service are Spadina and Bathurst in 2013. St Clair is not due to get them in service until 2016 and Queen till 2017

I've heard no changes to that plan for regular revenue service. Though I'd be surprised if it doesn't change ... these plans always change ...

 

[smallspy]

Ah, chicken and egg. Surely the'd have to train a handful of people to run the streetcars before acceptance, or else they'd not be able to test them, themselves, and have to rely on Bombardier staff to run the vehicles. Large-scale training would be in that late-2013 to 2014 timeframe, I'd think though.

No it isn't. Acceptance testing is never performed with operating staff. They have staff in vehicle engineering for that, and they will be the ones, along with some staff from Bombardier, who put the vehicles through their paces prior to being accepted.

Only once they have been cleared and accepted can the training staff learn the vehicles. And once the training department is ready, they can actually start to train the operating staff.

But do you want to accept a prototype that is very different than anything ever used before without some real tests? Perhaps they fill them up with TTC staff ...

That is in fact what they do. Nothing new about that.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

No it isn't. Acceptance testing is never performed with operating staff. They have staff in vehicle engineering for that, and they will be the ones, along with some staff from Bombardier, who put the vehicles through their paces prior to being accepted.

What do you mean, no it isn't. You have to train the vehicle engineering staff how to operate the thing don't you?

Only once they have been cleared and accepted can the training staff learn the vehicles. And once the training department is ready, they can actually start to train the operating staff.

Would they even do that with the prototypes though? Wouldn't they wait until the production units start arriving in late 2013?

That is in fact what they do. Nothing new about that.

As far as I'm aware, the last prototype streetcar we had - ALRV car 4900 in 1982, was indeed tested not only with passengers, but also in revenue service during 1982/1983, long before revenue service started with the production units in 1988.