SmartTrack (Proposed)

[Hopkins123]

That should bring back the DRL (hopefully LONG plan) back as the front runner

I've been saying all along that the $2.6 billion Trudeau has committed to SmartTrack would be better served going towards other projects such as the DRL or completing the Crosstown to Pearson. Tory's non-existent plan should remain just that, non-existent.

 

[robmausser]

Running GO or RER may indeed be more expensive than TTC bus but it is also a vastly superior use of funds and rolling stock.

Not only that, but you need to compare ridership estimates of Smarttrack/GO RER running every 5 minutes to building a separate DRL subway (plus the cost of running that subway)

So it costs more to run trains every 5 minutes? How much more?

You have to compare that to the billions it would cost to build a DRL subway, and to operate that subway.

Then, you compare ridership estimates and use those estimates to equalize the cost/benefit ratio of each.

Cost of GO RER every 5 minutes + Construction of New stations (electrification is happening anyways so shouldnt be added) / riderhship estimates.

compared to

Cost of building DRL + operating costs of DRL / ridership estimates.

The comparison of the two values will begin to tell you which is worth it.

Operating costs would have to be estimated at some length, most likely lifespan of rolling stock (30-40 years)

 

[W. K. Lis]

The crazy thing to think about is that New York's Second Avenue line is costing $1.7 Billion/km, and that's under a dense and aging city. $1 billion/km out in Toronto's suburbs would be completely ridiculous.

Really makes me question the accuracy of that cost estimate for the Western spur of Smart Track.

That's $1.7 billion/km in U.S. Dollars! Or $2.47 billion/km in Canadian Dollars!

 

[W. K. Lis]

I just hope that they don't use Union Station as SmartTrack's downtown station. It will be over capacity, if they do. Don't forget about the employment centre developments happening to the south of Union Station, which will add more crowds.

 

[GenerationW]

So that gets us into February, only five months later than promised. Par for the DRL course I suppose.

 

[ssiguy2]

I've been saying all along that the $2.6 billion Trudeau has committed to SmartTrack would be better served going towards other projects such as the DRL or completing the Crosstown to Pearson. Tory's non-existent plan should remain just that, non-existent.

Unfortunately you are proceeding from a false assumption.............that the DRL is an option.

Certainly it makes sense for the Crosstown to be extended westward to Renforth but get the DRL out of your mind.

If you want federal infrastructure funds for inner city transit the ST is not the best option, it's the ONLY option. The DRL will NOT qualify for any of the federal infrastructure money. The new monies have 2 main goals:
1} to build long term green infrastructure
2} to create short term jobs and boost economic growth over the short-term.

Any proposals that do not meet those 2 main criteria will be denied funding. Period.

 

[nfitz]

Unfortunately you are proceeding from a false assumption.............that the DRL is an option

How can the DRL not be an option? Even under the most optimistic SmartTrack scenario presented today, the Yonge subway southbound will have higher ridership in 2031 with SmartTrack built than it hass now. Let alone 2041, or if they extend the Yonge subway further north.

 

[ssiguy2]

It's also important to remember that, for infrastructure funding, times are good but that doesn't mean they will remain that way. The DRL, which is still needed, is a decade long project that probably wouldn't get shovels in the ground for 5 years.
In 5 years Trudeau and Wynne could be kicked out of office and those funds could come to a screeching halt. Hell, knowing Toronto Tory could be kicked out by another Ford and nothing will get built and all these promises will be just another map with different coloured lines on it collecting dust at the City Hall archives with all the other maps with coloured lines on them.

Again, whether you hate ST or love it, get this "I want a DRL instead" idea out of your head as it won't happen. Trudeau will NOT make an exception for Toronto and give it long term funding for a project that every other city in the country will not enjoy.

Also you have to remember that Trudeau is a politician. I think his understanding and wanting of green infrastructure is a genuine one but he still wants to reap all the political mileage he can out of all these projects nationwide. He will not tolerate the end of an environmental review and community consultations for a DRL as a back drop in Toronto in his re-election campaign. In fact it would do him immeasurable harm as the opposition uses it as an example of how Trudeau promised a lot and delivered nothing.

If Toronto wants DRL it can work on it's own plan but if they want any infrastructure for the downtown area in the next 5 years or more then ST is not the best option, it's the only option.

 

[ssiguy2]

How can the DRL not be an option? Even under the most optimistic SmartTrack scenario presented today, the Yonge subway southbound will have higher ridership in 2031 with SmartTrack built than it hass now. Let alone 2041, or if they extend the Yonge subway further north.

It's not an option if it doesn't have the money to get built.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps to get a high frequency and a TTC fare they could put SmartTrack on its own trackage and make it a subway. I could even annex the Scarborough wing of Line 2 as well.

 

[nfitz]

It's not an option if it doesn't have the money to get built.

Then no Yonge extension and/or we spend over $1 billion to rebuild Bloor-Yonge station to remove the bottleneck on the Yonge line.

 

[BurlOak]

How can the DRL not be an option? Even under the most optimistic SmartTrack scenario presented today, the Yonge subway southbound will have higher ridership in 2031 with SmartTrack built than it hass now. Let alone 2041, or if they extend the Yonge subway further north.

Sheppard Subway to STC is more of an option than DRL.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How can the DRL not be an option? Even under the most optimistic SmartTrack scenario presented today, the Yonge subway southbound will have higher ridership in 2031 with SmartTrack built than it hass now. Let alone 2041, or if they extend the Yonge subway further north.

Do we know if these numbers are with or without the YNSE? I haven't seen the base case for Yonge defined anywhere.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

How can the DRL not be an option? Even under the most optimistic SmartTrack scenario presented today, the Yonge subway southbound will have higher ridership in 2031 with SmartTrack built than it hass now. Let alone 2041, or if they extend the Yonge subway further north.

Because the city is waffling on the DRL. The city needs to stop dragging its feet.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's just too easy for Smart Track to leverage work on GO RER to not happen. It's lower cost, faster to launch, and covers more ridings. If you were a federal politician why would you support the DRL over this?

The Liberals are also looking at an economic disaster as oil prices collapse taking the CA$ with it. In this environment it means that the Feds will have less money than initially planned and a lot more of it will have to go to more hard hit regions that anticipated.

Looking at the tea leaves, ST looks more likely every day.