SmartTrack (Proposed)

[TheTigerMaster]

one might say they are burying that $5B

And don't think of trying to dig up that $5 Billion. Not unless you want to be on Pablo Escobar's hitlist

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'd like to see how they got $1.3 billion for extending the Eglinton LRT on the surface only 8 km to Renforth. Metrolinx priced this at $467 million in 2010$ when they deferred this to Phase 2. Their option on extra vehicles is $4.3 million per car, and an 8-km extension of the 19-km line would require 32 more cars if you assume that they'll have the same number of cars (despite the much lower ridership west of Jane) - so another $137 million.

That's about $600 million in 2010$. What's the other $700 million for? That's a lot of inflation!

Metrolinx is considering ECLRT options with enhanced grade separation (trench, etc..)

 

[44 North]

That's generous. My view is that Tory (or his handlers) was handed the SRRA report by his corporate buddies that wanted to connect their lands in Mississauga, South Riverdale, and Markham and branded it SmartTrack. Tory is stubbornly sticking with SmartTrack, like he stuck to police carding until many of his fellow privileged white people spoke out against it.

But hey, if it does end up giving us a beefed up Crosstown LRT extension that's faster than what was originally planned for west of Mount Dennis, I'd be happy.

Makes sense, and I'm definitely aware of the SRRA's RRL. But my view is that Tory was supported heavily by the Prov Liberals. Chow as the NDP candidate, Dough was PC, and Tory was the Liberal's guy. I wouldn't be surprised if Tory's corporate buddies handed him the SRRA report, or demanded that their lands be connected we re-prioritized transit (I'd actually be ranting more about that if it wasn't for fear of libel). But I think the effort behind the scenes with Tory/SmartTrack went beyond mere 'handlers' and 'buddies'. Rather, the plan was thoroughly vetted by the Prov as a means for TO to support and help finance some of their projects (in this case Crosstown West to Sauga and Stouffville RER to Markham). In doing so the rrl in the srra was brought more back down to earth, with the ultimate endgame being what seems to be happening now: i.e Crosstown West and Stouffville RER as the featured highlights.

 

[sixrings]

So it sure sounds like elevating the eastern section and connecting it to the srlrt make the most sense financially

 

[BurlOak]

Maybe its for an enhanced option like Metrolinx was floating to Smarttrack, aka, elevated or trenched.

So the options are;

1. An in-median LRT costing about $750M that people would oppose and would greatly hurt Tory's chance of re-election.
2. An elevated LRT costing about $1.3B that people would support and greatly improve Tory's chance of re-election.
3. A spur of SmartTrack for $5B that would likely be supported since others would pay 2/3 of the cost.

Once again, the solution is obvious, but likely to be ignored.

 

[nfitz]

So the options are;

1. An in-median LRT costing about $750M that people would oppose and would greatly hurt Tory's chance of re-election.
2. An elevated LRT costing about $1.3B that people would support and greatly improve Tory's chance of re-election.
3. A spur of SmartTrack for $5B that would likely be supported since others would pay 2/3 of the cost.

Once again, the solution is obvious, but likely to be ignored.

For 600 passengers eastbound at Renforth in the peak hour? If a simple bus every 10 minutes isn't good enough the solution is obviously the in-median LRT. Anything else will make me less likely to vote for Tory for wasting our money.

 

[crs1026]

Makes sense, and I'm definitely aware of the SRRA's RRL. But my view is that Tory was supported heavily by the Prov Liberals. Chow as the NDP candidate, Dough was PC, and Tory was the Liberal's guy. I wouldn't be surprised if Tory's corporate buddies handed him the SRRA report, or demanded that their lands be connected we re-prioritized transit (I'd actually be ranting more about that if it wasn't for fear of libel). But I think the effort behind the scenes with Tory/SmartTrack went beyond mere 'handlers' and 'buddies'. Rather, the plan was thoroughly vetted by the Prov as a means for TO to support and help finance some of their projects (in this case Crosstown West to Sauga and Stouffville RER to Markham). In doing so the rrl in the srra was brought more back down to earth, with the ultimate endgame being what seems to be happening now: i.e Crosstown West and Stouffville RER as the featured highlights.

I'm always leery of conspiracy theories, they give the accusee too much credit.

It does seem likely that Tory was wooing some development interests, but maybe other things are true too. He had to make his plan look even handed city wide, so it had to do as much for the west end as the east. Where to put a line in Etobicoke? He was drawing on a napkin.....The Airport beckoned.

I'm still convinced that there is no coincidence that the one major tunnelled section was to run right thru Ford Heartland.

In politics these days, the media and the opposition make it very difficult for anyone to back away from a dumb idea or test balloon. So when Tory is asked, are you still for Eglinton, the temptation is to answer 'yes' because any other answer will lead to headlines about changing his mind.

When Council asked for the current study, they specified that there would be a separate report specific to the Eglinton leg. I suspect that was to give him an 'out' without backing away from ST per se. Since then, he has done a poor job of keeping his options open. Had he kept his comments to 'My proposal is a suggestion that requires further study, and I will respect the analysis', he could eventually say 'OK, I got most of it right but thev Eglinton bit won't fly'. Instead, he has positioned the Eglinton piece as mission critical. He painted himself into a corner. Screwup, not conspiracy.

- Paul

 

[aquateam]

My view is that this is all part of the dance, and that Tory knew full well his ST West plan didn't work. He wanted a Crosstown West extension re-prioritized (for reasons unknown), improved upon (i.e more grade-separation), and for TO to study/finance it (even though it should be the Prov). But he also didn't want to be seen as the candidate endorsing LRT or anything related to Transit City. This is part of the reason why he gave us a plan that didn't work or make much sense...so that we could ultimately support Plan B (an improved upon Crosstown West extension, which was really Plan A all along).

At the end of the day, SmartTrack really seems to be Toronto helping to support/finance a Crosstown extn to Sauga and Stouffville RER to Downtown Markham. IOW no unified cross-city line, no different service level. Just these two separate projects.

I think the likelier scenario is that JT was sold a fantastical transit line by real-estate developers, and by the time the holes were pointed out he was in too deep to back out. The next couple years are either 1) him coming to terms that the plan as-is doesn't make sense or 2) him trying to back out while still saving face.

 

[gweed123]

I think the likelier scenario is that JT was sold a fantastical transit line by real-estate developers, and by the time the holes were pointed out he was in too deep to back out. The next couple years are either 1) him coming to terms that the plan as-is doesn't make sense or 2) him trying to back out while still saving face.

Funny, since many on here (myself included) pointed out that hole pretty much the day that SmartTrack was publicly announced. He willfully buried his head in the sand on that topic, and now it's coming to bite him in the ass.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

For 600 passengers eastbound at Renforth in the peak hour? If a simple bus every 10 minutes isn't good enough the solution is obviously the in-median LRT. Anything else will make me less likely to vote for Tory for wasting our money.

Where's your number from? I'm pretty sure ridership will increase east of Renforth upon the completion of an ECLRT as well as the 403 Transitway. That's traffic from Mississauga and the airport.

 

[nfitz]

Where's your number from? I'm pretty sure ridership will increase east of Renforth upon the completion of an ECLRT as well as the 403 Transitway. That's traffic from Mississauga and the airport.

That's the forecast 2031 demand FOR THE ECLRT, eastbound in the EA. Of course it assumes that the ECLRT starts at Pearson rather than Renforth. It assumes the Mississauga Transitway is constructed, along with the Spadina subway extension, Finch West LRT and all the other Transit City LRTs.

It was shortly after these numbers came out, that they cut it back to Mount Dennis. Presumably, that 600 is an increase, as with the current 6 buses an hour, the capacity is only about 300 or so an hour.

It does, of course, increase in ridership as you get further east, hitting 600 an hour at Martin Grove and 900 an hour arriving at Kipling.

 

[salsa]

If a simple bus every 10 minutes isn't good enough the solution is obviously the in-median LRT. Anything else will make me less likely to vote for Tory for wasting our money.

I thought you said Tory is racist. You would never vote for him anyway.

 

[nfitz]

I thought you said Tory is racist. You would never vote for him anyway.

If all else was equal, it's not impossible - my point is that I don't think that by wasting tax payers money on expensive infrastructre for not many riders, is going to improve his chance of re-election - even in Etobicoke.

My comments from 18 months ago were in relation to the past list of candidates, not the next. However my opinions of John Tory spending 30 years in a white-only golf course have nothing to do with this thread. Please don't troll.

 

[salsa]

If all else was equal, it's not impossible - my point is that I don't think that by wasting tax payers money on expensive infrastructre for not many riders, is going to improve his chance of re-election - even in Etobicoke.

My comments from 18 months ago were in relation to the past list of candidates, not the next. However my opinions of John Tory spending 30 years in a white-only golf course have nothing to do with this thread. Please don't troll.

Fair enough.

 

[salsa]

That report has been submitted to the city. Oh, and we also haven't heard anything from his little shill group (FAST).