SmartTrack (Proposed)

[DonValleyRainbow]

Let’s see the bill for SmartTrack: Editorial

Don't quite agree with the statement that "[Tory] was elected last year largely on a pledge to deliver SmartTrack...", but otherwise, good to call on these costs being released ASAP.

 

[44 North]

I would add:

3. So he can justify not building a relief line

- Paul

Possible addendum:
4. So he can justify not building the Scarboro Subway either.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Possible addendum:
4. So he can justify not building the Scarboro Subway either.

Tory said this morning his support for it is "ironclad".

 

[Cobra]

ugh...this project needs to die already and that 8 Billions reassign to the Don Mills-DRL line. Let the province do their job with GO RER

 

[ehlow]

True. The LRT proponents in this city haven't done us any favours by tending to start with a middle-of-the-road mindset for every LRT proposal. A little more creativity might have kept us away from some of the "streetcars just mess up traffic" opposition. Frankly, it played into Ford Nation's hands.

Eglinton West is a good example, and may be an opportunity lost thanks to the sale of some of the land. But we should approach it with a very creative mind. It could still be a model of good LRT design... another thing for Scarboro to envy

- Paul

Scarborough LRT was elevated and fully grade separated.

 

[salsa]

The mayor delivered another Smart Track stump speech this morning, with the all the usual BS that we're familiar with.

Why can't he just wail until the transportation model is up and running before jumping to conclusions?

Smart Track was never ever on the city's top 10 list of priorities, but now it has to be build first apparently. Unbelievable.

No, it does NOT use existing infrastructure. The election is over, why does he keep lying to us and making stuff up?

And it's time that we get on with it instead of wasting time on your pet project.

In other words, no matter what the facts will say, Tory intents to build it anyway.

 

[ssiguy2]

If there seems to be a conflict between ST and the nonsensical Scarborough Subway then why not just combine the 2?

Build the ST to Markham and a new section to STC and every other train serving each. Save billions on a wasted tunnel in the burbs and the two wouldn't bleed each other's ridership.

 

[Rainforest]

If there seems to be a conflict between ST and the nonsensical Scarborough Subway then why not just combine the 2?

Build the ST to Markham and a new section to STC and every other train serving each. Save billions on a wasted tunnel in the burbs and the two wouldn't bleed each other's ridership.

Frequency of each branch will be way too low.

 

[Rainforest]

Going over or under major intersections effectively means building all of the stations under ground or in the air, which would more or less double the cost, but it would still likely be much cheaper than a heavy rail tunnel option, which seems doomed. I would like to see someone explore ways of grade separating some of the line from some of the traffic in ways that leave the stations as cheap, simple platforms instead of big buildings requiring dozens of redundant elevators, escalators, etc. that will mostly be broken.

A range of options is available; enhancements to LRT do not have to double the cost. For example, if elevated stations are built only at Royal York, Islington, and Kipling, at say $50 million each, and a dedicated guideway through the 427/27/401 maze is added for $20 million, then the total extra cost will be at $170 million or 17% of the base price.

A few other stations can be built at the street level: Jane, Scarlett, Martin Grove, perhaps East Mall and West Mall. If Eglinton traffic gets 55-60% of green time at those intersections, the LRT will be reasonably fast.

 

[Rainforest]

They put in a linear park on the south side of Eglinton West in Etobicoke. I guess you consider all parkland a waste of land that should be developed or paved over? I don't.

Before the motor vehicles took over the streets and roads for their exclusive use, kids actually used the streets as a playground. Only the occasional horse or buggy used the roads, and at a very slow walk or trot. Rarely did the horse have to gallop. Because of the automobile, the city had to put in parkland and playgrounds so that the kids will have somewhere safe to play.

Parks are great but they do not have to be linear. For most of uses, oval-shaped or rectangular parks are better.

Transit lines, on the other hand, work best in continuous, linear corridors (obviously there are some exceptions but not many).

Anyway, that train has left the station as parcels of land along Eglinton are sold off.

 

[44 North]

If there seems to be a conflict between ST and the nonsensical Scarborough Subway then why not just combine the 2?

Build the ST to Markham and a new section to STC and every other train serving each. Save billions on a wasted tunnel in the burbs and the two wouldn't bleed each other's ridership.

There is a conflict between ST and SSE. The Scarb Subway (or the previous SLRT, or the previous subway proposal before that, or the previous proposal for an extension as ICTS before that) shows that new rapid transit in Scarb is a longstanding priority going back decades. SmrtTrack East (aka Stouffville RER to Downtown Markham) is a very recent priority, it's a provincial project, and it's jumped other prov promises like Lake Shore RER. But more importantly: compared to the existing and future demand for rt in Scarb its ridership is quite low (5.8M riders/yr vs 31M/yr and 36M/yr for the SLRT and SSE). Not to mention that recent studies show that a DRL would slash its ridership substantially (approx 2k peak).

Both SSE and the SLRT have merits, and IMO the choice of mode is a bit superfluous. At the end of the day the fact of the matter remains that the Scarb situation has been a priority for quite some time, and we know what we're getting when we build it. ST East/Stouffville RER? It's only been a priority for the last couple years and we really don't know what we're getting, what kind of service will be offered, or how popular it will be. So if anything it should be ST East/Stouffville RER that should be delayed/curtailed/cheapened/gerrymandered/worked around or whatever.

 

[robmausser]

Other than the small stretch between the Sunnybrook Park stop and Science Centre station, I don't see much missed opportunity.

A side-of-the-roadway alignment would be very limiting with the number of driveways and crossings that would intersect it. We've already seen the result of that on Queens Quay with all the additional signals necessary there for the side-of-the-roadway alignment.

I'm really disappointed with the tunnel vision and narrow mindedness in this forum.

No, Eglinton west is in the middle of the street, but all without taking up a single lane of current traffic.

Where do you think those extra lanes went? Fantasy land? They widened the roadway to accommodate them.

Instead of doing this in the middle, they could have put the LRT on one side and the lanes on the other.

And sure, lets use a streetcar line to compare to LRT. Who are we, Rob Ford?

Look outside of Toronto for once. This is how Denver, Baltimore, Calgary, Edmonton, San Diego, Los Angeles etc etc etc etc all do their LRTs! Cars on one side, LRT on the other

 

[nfitz]

I'm really disappointed with the tunnel vision and narrow mindedness in this forum.

No, Eglinton west is in the middle of the street, but all without taking up a single lane of current traffic.

Which part of Eglinton West is in the middle of the street? None.

Instead of doing this in the middle, they could have put the LRT on one side and the lanes on the other.

But then you have all these driveways and sidestreets crossing the LRT, creating a lot more signals. This is why Queens Quay is now slower (and has more signals) now, than it did before they moved the tracks.

Not a bid deal for such a short section. But why would you sacrifice a long line like Sheppard East with this?

 

[robmausser]

Which part of Eglinton West is in the middle of the street? None.

But then you have all these driveways and sidestreets crossing the LRT, creating a lot more signals. This is why Queens Quay is now slower (and has more signals) now, than it did before they moved the tracks.

Not a bid deal for such a short section. But why would you sacrifice a long line like Sheppard East with this?

Sorry I meant Eglinton East.

And jeesh, its like other cities in the world don't exist where this has been done hundreds of times before that we can't look to for advice. Where studies have shown that putting LRT beside the roadway actually increase transit speeds and not slow them down like you are saying.

If only..

 

[nfitz]

And jeesh, its like other cities in the world don't exist where this has been done hundreds of times before that we can't look to for advice. Where studies have shown that putting LRT beside the roadway actually increase transit speeds and not slow them down like you are saying.

Look at Steve Munro's analysis of travel times on Queens Quay before and after the rebuild.

Though with all the extra traffic lights they've added, it should be obvious.

Driving along the Golden Mile, there are a LOT of driveways for businesses. The travel time would be shockingly slow. It's not an option. Yes, it was an option between Sunnbyrook Park and Science Centre - but not in Scarborough.