Sheppard Subway to be Mothballed?

[ShonTron]

I sent around emails - one specifically to Giambrone, and another to the Commissioners with CCs to Miller and my councillor. I was civil, even polite, but I let my anger show. I hate how transit riders are the first in line to be given the shaft, and this hasn't changed with Giambrone/Miller.

I doubt it would help much.

I would reluctantly support a fare increase (even phased in - 10 cent more for tickets/$5 more for a Metropass now, another one in early 2008) if it would stop the loss of recent momentum. Even if no routes are cut, the possibility of cancelled route improvements (when some of the busiest line-haul routes are already behind on capacity and have closed-doors on weekends even) would be a huge setback and completely regressive, especially in the parts of the city outside the central core.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I wonder how much additional money TTC would receive if they can get rid of the weekly Metropass - which has been proven to boost ridership but not revenue.

re: Sheppard

Apparently, according to the conversation in Steve Munro's blog, a special development charge for the subway line was recinded for properties in the area during the Lastman era.

AoD

 

[CliffColeclough]

So glad our 'great' mayor finally got called out

Oh for christsake. David Miller is acting like a petulant child who didn't get what he wanted. "Daddy, buy me the teddy bear or I will run away from home!" is all I'm seeing here. Shall we have tiny, reasonable, measured service cuts to all departments (2-3%?), or should we shut down the subway and cause chaos? Well, shutting down the Sheppard line will get his-royal-blondness the most publicity, so I guess that's just the way it's going to have to be. Funny thing is, usually when daddy says "fine" at the threat and call's his 3 year-olds bluff, the cute little teddy-bear less child will more often then not eventually learn their lesson and stop crying (no running away necessary). My dear citizens, next time you hear HRB threatening to shut down the TTC, or cancel garbage pick up and declare Dundas Square our new landfill to save on transportation fuel, or even shut down drinking water treatment plants and tell people we're going to have to get it in buckets from Lake Ontario, just picture him in a diaper and ignore it. I guarantee his little tantrum will blow over soon enough and life will go on as usual around here. You probably won't even notice that required 2% cut in services, maybe libraries will switch to 1ply toilet paper or something.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hipster:

The GTA just got a $17.5 billion transit expansion promise a month and a half ago. If they really want the money, all they have to do is ask.

That's potential capital funding, not actual operating funding - which the province has been mightily reluctant to get back into for a reason.

AoD

 

[ITcomputer]

So glad our 'great' mayor finally got called out

Oh for christsake. David Miller is acting like a petulant child who didn't get what he wanted. "Daddy, buy me the teddy bear or I will run away from home!" is all I'm seeing here. Shall we have tiny, reasonable, measured service cuts to all departments (2-3%?), or should we shut down the subway and cause chaos? Well, shutting down the Sheppard line will get his-royal-blondness the most publicity, so I guess that's just the way it's going to have to be. Funny thing is, usually when daddy says "fine" at the threat and call's his 3 year-olds bluff, the cute little teddy-bear less child will more often then not eventually learn their lesson and stop crying (no running away necessary). My dear citizens, next time you hear HRB threatening to shut down the TTC, or cancel garbage pick up and declare Dundas Square our new landfill to save on transportation fuel, or even shut down drinking water treatment plants and tell people we're going to have to get it in buckets from Lake Ontario, just picture him in a diaper and ignore it. I guarantee his little tantrum will blow over soon enough and life will go on as usual around here. You probably won't even notice that required 2% cut in services, maybe libraries will switch to 1ply toilet paper or something.

Yes, I can't see the city shutting down a subway that cost almost a billion to build. Especially after the development that is going on and continues. I would imagine that no amount of buses would be able to handle the volume. I know Dufferin has a daily capacity of 37000 riders, the Sheppard subway is over 40000? If you know dufferin there are buses almost every 2 minutes during peak times (packed).

 

[GregWTravels]

Is anybody else wondering if this might not be the kind of thing that would make Queen's Park take over the TTC and hand it to the GTTA to run?

 

[notyouagain]

This issue is on the radar with all provincial parties and leaders; they are all mumbling about it in a confused manner. It is time to make them feel the heat. What Miller should do now is to publicise these cuts, focus on the responsibility of the provincial government in having to make those cuts, zero in on the inactivity of the provincial government to do what is necessary to mitigate the need for such cuts, and then the city should actually start to shut things down - right as the election begins! Just heap blame on the province and turn it into the election issue.

Extreme? Yes. But extreme times may call for extreme actions.

I agree. Miller has tried dealing with the province in a rational, mature fashion. What has he recived in return for his efforts? Has the province paid its legally mandated share of social services? No. Has it uploaded social services? No. Instead, they shoved a subway to Vaughan down our throats. It's a sad indictment of Canadian politics, but I'm afraid that only a crisis timed to coincide with an election will ensure that a long-term solution will emerge.

 

[BobBob]

The TTC takes up 15% of the city's budget. Doesn't police amount to something like 50%? Nobody ever talks about cuts / efficiencies in that department...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is anybody else wondering if this might not be the kind of thing that would make Queen's Park take over the TTC and hand it to the GTTA to run?

That has the potential to be the best thing since sliced bread, but also an unmitigated disaster - just imagine the scenario whereby the city is forced to shoulder the majority of the cost without a majority on the board.

AoD

 

[notyouagain]

The police budget makes up less than 9.75% of the operating budget.

 

[Junglab]

The planned deferal of the 2 taxes, totalling $350 million in projected revenues, to October 22nd almost certainly means that they can't be allocated to the 2008 budget (the first few months at least) should they be approved at the council meeting on that date. The newspapers have consistently reported the resulting loss of revenue to be $100 million, give or take a few bills. Thus, even if council eventually decides to impliment the taxes, the city will be $100 million short. This discrepancy has to be dealt with.
Now, of a total city budget of $7.8 billion, only $1.4 is available to the city for discretionary spending/cuts - the remainder constitues provinically mandates services and their administration (welfare, drug plan, etc).
Of this $1.4 billion, emergency services and transit consititute the vast majority of spending. Moreover, these have, by far, been the fastest growing departments both in terms of staffing and costs. That means that any cuts are going to affect these services proportionately. Today, we have heard that of the projected $100 million discrepancy, $30 million will derive from cuts/fare increases at the TTC, another $30 million will come from police, fire, and other emergency services, and another ~$40 million will likely come from pool closures, cutbacks at libraries and community centres, and program termination. And please note the important difference between operating and capital budgets - Transit City et al don't make an iota of difference to the operating budget's bottom line.
With respect to the TTC, its cost recovery ratio is already higher than most transit services - the only fat to cut are the most egregiously money-losing routes; at this point, it's all about the cost recovery of individual routes. Unfortunately, Sheppard ranks quite high on this list, given the premium service levels it provides it's (relatively) few riders, over its (relatively) short length. Sheppard is an inordinately expensive route to run - it is STILL nowhere near capacity, even at 4 (vs. the usual 6) cars, and provides very frequent service for its usage. Moreover, the subway requires large amounts of energy (the costs of which are going up), including lights, ventilation, AC, and power. Finally, some 114 employees work this line, making an average of $75,000 each per year. Despite all the dreaming and yearning of some on this forum, a subway line with lower usage than the Dufferin bus is not tenable in this period of crisis.
Quite frankly, I know of few routes in the entire TTC system the closure of which would net the system so much money.

Adma - the Nathan Philips Square reno has, indeed, been deferred, according to the latest news.

 

[notyouagain]

I sent around emails - one specifically to Giambrone, and another to the Commissioners with CCs to Miller and my councillor. I was civil, even polite, but I let my anger show. I hate how transit riders are the first in line to be given the shaft, and this hasn't changed with Giambrone/Miller.

I doubt it would help much.

Why don't you e-mail your MPP and the premiere, that's where the solution lies. I did.

 

[ShonTron]

Only so much time to go around.

I wrote my MP back in May about the CRTC - I haven't heard back. I called the constituency office a month later, and told that Mr. Dryden likes to respond to his correspondance personally. I am now reminded of Ringo Starr in that Simpsons episode, as I have yet to hear back.

Trust me, I am writing my Liberal MPP (a senior cabinet minister) as well. I don't expect much from him - my riding is pretty safe Liberal anyway.

 

[ITcomputer]

Only so much time to go around.

I wrote my MP back in May about the CRTC - I haven't heard back. I called the constituency office a month later, and told that Mr. Dryden likes to respond to his correspondance personally. I am now reminded of Ringo Starr in that Simpsons episode, as I have yet to hear back.

Maybe you should paint a nice portrait of him, and then he can tell you that fries are called chips in England...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I know Dufferin has a daily capacity of 37000 riders, the Sheppard subway is over 40000? If you know dufferin there are buses almost every 2 minutes during peak times (packed).

Sheppard would be much busier than Dufferin because Dufferin goes north and south of the Bloor subway, effectively "doubling" the route and splitting ridership to a degree, and Dufferin also sees more random shorter trips. Sheppard, however, sees masive rush hour crowds all going in one direction - one reason the subway was built in the first place was because of how awful the bus was, largely due to how gridlocked Sheppard can be. E/W arterials in the area have been relieved by the 407 in recent years, but as York and Durham and even the rest of Scarborough develop, they are filling up again with traffic.

Sheppard would look like the Spadina streetcar, except instead of going 2 or 3 km, its riders are going 8 or 12km.

That's potential capital funding, not actual operating funding - which the province has been mightily reluctant to get back into for a reason.

At the end of the day, money is money.