Sheppard Subway to be Mothballed?

[roch5220]

More money should be generated by fares. Here we go again, why not fare by distance, with fares ranging from 2-5 dollars. Flat fee arrangements do not work with such a large system. Imagine GO fares being a flat $3.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

scarberian:

At the end of the day, money is money.

Err, no. You can't shove money provided by a senior level of govenment for a specific purpose (e.g. capital expenditure) and use it for other things. At best, it may allow you to reduce the city's own portion, if any, of such expenditure and in the processing raising the ire of the province (which could jeopordize future funding); worst, it can violate any MOUs or agreements and be constructed as a breach of contract. In the world of the govenment, money is definitely NOT money.

AoD

 

[scarberiankhatru]

It could be if the politics of 3 bickering levels of government weren't involved. Useless democracy.

 

[GregWTravels]

Oh, EXPERTS from the Provincial government! That'll help

Ontario offers advice, not cash to strapped cities
Last Updated: Friday, July 20, 2007 | 1:00 PM ET
The Canadian Press
Ontario's finance minister is throwing struggling municipalities a lifeline — but not in the form of a cheque.

Greg Sorbara says the province would be happy to help cities like Toronto that are struggling with budget deficits or considering hefty tax hikes to balance their books.

He says the province can send in experts to take a look at the books of strapped municipalities, or agencies like the Toronto Transit Commission, and help find savings.

The commission is meeting Friday to consider drastic service cuts due to funding shortfalls.

Sorbara told reporters on Friday that he's not going to be signing any cheques or remove any financial responsibility to help bail out municipalities.

New Democrat Paul Ferreira says offering experts is a patronizing response to the crisis municipalities find themselves in.

He says the Liberal government should take back responsibility for provincial programs like disability support, which is funded from the property tax base.

 

[ShonTron]

Sorbara is an idiot. Sending in experts is a nice diversion, and won't report back, of course, until the election is over.

The problem is downloading and the province not paying the Ontario Health and Drug Plans that it is supposed to. Way to go!

 

[unimaginative2]

I agree. Miller has tried dealing with the province in a rational, mature fashion. What has he recived in return for his efforts? Has the province paid its legally mandated share of social services? No. Has it uploaded social services? No. Instead, they shoved a subway to Vaughan down our throats. It's a sad indictment of Canadian politics, but I'm afraid that only a crisis timed to coincide with an election will ensure that a long-term solution will emerge.

Nothing at all, except billions in gas tax, a $17.5 billion transit commitment, millions in annual special funding just for Toronto, millions for the waterfront, and most of all, vast special powers which are exactly what Miller was asking for. Once again, Toronto is literally the only city in the world where a commitment to fully fund a major subway expansion in our city brings out denunciation from so-called transit "supporters."

 

[Edward Skira]

So if they announced a subway to Peterborough we would have to be happy? Why not let the TTC decide where subways should go? Having said that I'm fine with the subway to York U. Beyond that not so happy.

 

[ShonTron]

I went for the first hour of the meeting before having to go back to work. Sat three seats in the row from that asshat Kinnear (didn't hear what he had to say, but I think he's on our side this time for fighting against service cuts - his motivation though would be to protect ATU 113 members and increase membership).

Here's the list of 21 routes:
160 Bathurst North
49 Bloor West
8 Broadview
120 Calvington
127 Davenport
26 Dupont
139 Finch East (Don Mills)
33 Forest Hill
14 Glencarin
169 Huntingwood
503 Kingston Road Tripper
162 Lawrence-Donway
30 Lambton
132 Milner
62 Mortimer
74 Mt. Pleasant
67 Pharmacy
167 Pharmacy North
115 Silver Hills
10 Van Horne
97 Yonge

Cutting these routes all together would save only $1 Million this year, $10 Million in 2008.

Other route would have cuts based on time of day (see more evening/weekend service cuts) or by route segments (entirely or off-peak).

A 10 cent fare increase ($5 Metropass) for September would net $7 Million of the $10 Million supposedly required for this year. That, and some "internal efficiencies", I hope, would be enough for this year. The problem is next year, where they need $100 Million in cuts - a 10 cent fare increase would raise about $20 Million of that without service cuts in 2008.

It's bad, but Giambrone was a dooming-and-glooming a bit much (I have the feeling Sheppard will not be closed). But service cuts or not implementing planned service increases will both be terrible precedents.

 

[unimaginative2]

So if they announced a subway to Peterborough we would have to be happy? Why not let the TTC decide where subways should go? Having said that I'm fine with the subway to York U. Beyond that not so happy.

The TTC did support it. The York U extension has always been their top priority, going right back to the Rapid Transit Expansion Plan days. I completely agree that the Vaughan extension is questionable if it isn't combined with immediate intensive redevelopment, but that segment isn't costing the city a dime. In fact, it's saving the city money since it's drawing York into making a bigger contribution (or at least it was before the province committed to paying the entire municipal amount).

 

[MisterF]

Once again, Toronto is literally the only city in the world where a commitment to fully fund a major subway expansion in our city brings out denunciation from so-called transit "supporters."

Somehow I doubt that.

 

[ShonTron]

Once again, Toronto is literally the only city in the world where a commitment to fully fund a major subway expansion in our city brings out denunciation from so-called transit "supporters."

Somebody's never heard of the Bus Riders' Union in LA.

 

[Pep'rJack]

"Greg Sorbara says the province would be happy to help cities like Toronto that are struggling with budget deficits or considering hefty tax hikes to balance their books. He says the province can send in experts to take a look at the books of strapped municipalities, or agencies like the Toronto Transit Commission, and help find savings."

 

[scarberiankhatru]

While the sinkhole extension may not be the best place to put a subway right now, that doesn't automatically make it bad.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

In the same vein...

 

[Hydrogen]

Killing a subway line does not make for a good argument in support of subways.

Build the line to York - and to the burbs. Make them depend on the subway. Argue that the Sheppard line is incomplete and needs to be finshed to increase ridership on it (mothballing subway lines reduces ridership on them - it's a fact). Actively plan and promote a new east-west line and galvanize public support for it by pointing out its essential qualities and how such a line is necessary to keeping Toronto up to date in the important world of public transit.

We have to start fighting for things, and not against them.