Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[BurlOak]

LRTs which have parts underground or elevated do make sense. Why wouldn't they?

Boston, SF, Brussels, Edmonton, Ottawa (under construction), Newark, LA and probably many other cities have light rail running partly underground.

• A short underground section (such as most transit city lines had) at a major transfer interchange makes sense.
• When the underground section is interlined with several routes, it makes sense.
• When the underground portion is over 10km long, over 50% of the entire length, costs over $4B, and it would cost less than 10% extra to make it fully grade-separated, then it does not make sense.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

LRTs which have parts underground or elevated do make sense. Why wouldn't they?

Boston, SF, Brussels, Edmonton, Ottawa (under construction), Newark, LA and probably many other cities have light rail running partly underground.

• A short underground section (such as most transit city lines had) at a major transfer interchange makes sense.
• When the underground section is interlined with several routes, it makes sense.
• When the underground portion is over 10km long, over 50% of the entire length, costs over $4B, and it would cost less than 10% extra to make it fully grade-separated, then it does not make sense.

Bingo.

 

[Johnny Au]

LRTs which have parts underground or elevated do make sense. Why wouldn't they?

Boston, SF, Brussels, Edmonton, Ottawa (under construction), Newark, LA and probably many other cities have light rail running partly underground.

...and Buffalo, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Calgary, etc.

 

[ehlow]

• A short underground section (such as most transit city lines had) at a major transfer interchange makes sense.
• When the underground section is interlined with several routes, it makes sense.
• When the underground portion is over 10km long, over 50% of the entire length, costs over $4B, and it would cost less than 10% extra to make it fully grade-separated, then it does not make sense.

10% extra cost to make fully grade separated? Where did you get that number?

Current cost of ECLRT: $5.3 billion. Source: http://www.thecrosstown.ca/the-project/fact-sheets/eglinton-crosstown
Extra cost of burying the east surface portion: $1.9 billion. Source: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4124.shtml

1.9/5.3 billion = 35% increase in costs.

Anyways ECLRT is being built and it's not fully grade separated east of Leaside, so you guys will just have to live with it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

10% extra cost to make fully grade separated? Where did you get that number?

Current cost of ECLRT: $5.3 billion. Source: http://www.thecrosstown.ca/the-project/fact-sheets/eglinton-crosstown
Extra cost of burying the east surface portion: $1.9 billion. Source: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/streetcar/4124.shtml

1.9/5.3 billion = 35% increase in costs.

Anyways ECLRT is being built and it's not fully grade separated east of Leaside, so you guys will just have to live with it.

So we should stop the criticism then?

 

[GenerationW]

If you don't believe fine, I was just showing her side. And yes it's likely, because some people just won't be happy with one subway. That's what some people here can't wrap their heads around for some reason. You give them an inch they take a mile. Stop with the tunnel vision already.

Tunnel vision? I'm not the one talking endlessly about a Sheppard extension, the project that's least likely to be built under a Liberal majority and whoever becomes mayor.

And who is this "them" that might take a mile? Kathleen Wynne, Olivia Chow, John Tory, and most of City Council are either against Sheppard or have shown no interest in it. Unlike B-D, the politics just don't work.

Transit is a priority for Chow. That includes the DRL, Transit City, the Yonge extension, buses, and streetcars. She is leaving the priority to the TTC and likely Metrolinx.

Other than extra buses, she has said far too little. And her comments on the DRL have not been encouraging.

That's false rainforest. Miller never intended for the Dufferin-Bayview section to be underground.

That's clearly wrong. He always intended it to be underground.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Tunnel vision? I'm not the one talking endlessly about a Sheppard extension, the project that's least likely to be built under a Liberal majority and whoever becomes mayor.

And who is this "them" that might take a mile? Kathleen Wynne, Olivia Chow, John Tory, and most of City Council are either against Sheppard or have shown no interest in it. Unlike B-D, the politics just don't work.

No you're the one talking about how because Olivia didn't support the DRL 25 years she doesn't support it now. Sheppard? I said I am against both Bloor Danforth and Sheppard, because building one of them sets a bad precent. I'm not writing scribbles here. I wasn't aware 23 votes of 44 was a strong majority, you must be one of those 50+1 people. John Tory doesn't even care about the DRL either anymore, where's the complaints about that?

Other than extra buses, she has said far too little. And her comments on the DRL have not been encouraging.

Source each comment she has said right now then. If she said she wants to work on the DRL with the province that would not have been good enough either so can the crap already.

That's clearly wrong. He always intended it to be underground.

There was backroom chatter of it being all above ground before the plan came out with the central underground portion.

 

[ehlow]

So we should stop the criticism then?

No by all means, let's have the same debates over and over again every few months for years & decades into the future

Elevated eglinton east, south side leslie alignment, Sheppard subway vs LRT, Scarborough subway vs LRT, they are all classics that will go on forever.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

No by all means, let's have the same debates over and over again every few months for years & decades into the future

Elevated eglinton east, south side leslie alignment, Sheppard subway vs LRT, Scarborough subway vs LRT, they are all classics that will go on forever.

Good to hear I think we all want the best for the city, just different was to go about it.

 

[GenerationW]

No you're the one talking about how because Olivia didn't support the DRL 25 years she doesn't support it now. Sheppard? I said I am against both Bloor Danforth and Sheppard, because building one of them sets a bad precent. I'm not writing scribbles here. I wasn't aware 23 votes of 44 was a strong majority, you must be one of those 50+1 people.

Wow, that's all over the place. Is there a point in there?

Source each comment she has said right now then. If she said she wants to work on the DRL with the province that would not have been good enough either so can the crap already.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...ld-not-be-an-election-issue-olivia-chow-says/

Mayoral candidate Olivia Chow said the downtown relief line shouldn’t be an election issue, in a radio interview Wednesday.

A mayoral candidate saying the city's highest transit priority should not even be an election issue should make any voter ask questions.

There was backroom chatter of it being all above ground before the plan came out with the central underground portion.

Source any comments about backroom chatter or else I call total B.S.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Wow, that's all over the place. Is there a point in there?

Let me simplify it. I am against both Scarborough subways. End of story.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...ld-not-be-an-election-issue-olivia-chow-says/
A mayoral candidate saying the city's highest transit priority should not even be an election issue should make any voter ask questions.

Garbage. It shouldn't be an election issue because everyone knows we need it. Try Again.

Source any comments about backroom chatter or else I call total B.S.

Talked to city planners in '08.

 

[GenerationW]

Let me simplify it. I am against both Scarborough subways. End of story.

Okay, but what does that have to do with whether or not a Sheppard subway extension has a chance of being built in the current political climate? You're the one who said there is a "them" out there just waiting to take a mile. Who are they and how will they do it?

Garbage. It shouldn't be an election issue because everyone knows we need it. Try Again.

John Tory made it an election issue. Karen Stintz made it an election issue. David Soknacki made it an election issue. And just because "everyone knows we need it" doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be built. I'd like to hear Chow show more commitment to the DRL, and to her credit her recent comments have been more encouraging.

Talked to city planners in '08.

So then you were just spouting B.S. Gotcha.

 

[gweed123]

No by all means, let's have the same debates over and over again every few months for years & decades into the future

Elevated eglinton east, south side leslie alignment, Sheppard subway vs LRT, Scarborough subway vs LRT, they are all classics that will go on forever.

My personal favourite from the Toronto Transit Ideas Greatest Hits album is "North York Relief Line". Such a classic! It's catchy, but at the same time incredibly annoying.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

So we should stop the criticism then?

Yes.

What's complaining about a line under construction going to solve?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Okay, but what does that have to do with whether or not a Sheppard subway extension has a chance of being built in the current political climate? You're the one who said there is a "them" out there just waiting to take a mile. Who are they and how will they do it?

Those who support the sheppard subway. Have you not see the protest the last 2 weeks, or is your head in the sand. There is no contentious political climate right now. Ford is gone, Liberals got reelected. Stop being melodramatic.

John Tory made it an election issue. Karen Stintz made it an election issue. David Soknacki made it an election issue. And just because "everyone knows we need it" doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be built. I'd like to hear Chow show more commitment to the DRL, and to her credit her recent comments have been more encouraging.

No, it's not guaranteed, even though we're building a a stupid subway extension for it, and it's all but officially funded by the Liberals, which will show in their next budget. So, like I said, garbage and try again. She never said she didn't want to build the DRL.

So then you were just spouting B.S. Gotcha.

I didn't have to take what they were saying out of context right? Like you just did with Chow?