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saveoursubways (SOS)

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@ Gweed: That map is awesome. Apart from my very slight disagreement concerning the DRL (Don Mills in the 25-year timeframe and excluding north of Dundas West,) it's perfect. Of course, some things probably will get changed, perhaps around the DRL, and also over the timeframe of other projects.

There's no way an Agincourt stop on the Sheppard line wouldn't hit the rail interchange. There's already development going on south of there, and it'll be quite an important stop once the Stouffville line stop gets moved down there to intersect the Midtown line. I also like the stop at Progress. It should help make STC more transit friendly and make a solid Western anchor for the centre :)
 
gweed123 said:
Never underestimate the power of political changes. Just ask the people on Eglinton West, who, when construction began on the subway, thought they had it in the bag.
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Yeah, but the last thing I'd want to see from you guys is celebration over TC lines being canceled due to lack of funding with nothing said about replacements or alternatives.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Yeah, but the last thing I'd want to see from you guys is celebration over TC lines being canceled due to lack of funding with nothing said about replacements or alternatives.
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Ah, but there's a huge difference. In this case, they'd be cancelled while retaining the money. For Eglinton West, it was cancelled and the money went to the government. McGuinty's not going to throw away money that was supposed to go to a certain transit project just because it's been cancelled. He's not a dirty, evil, scumbag, and sees the importance of transit for the City. If the TTC said "let's move funding from LRT to Subway," McGuinty would do it. In fact, he might even be happy for it.
 
If you guys aren't going to heed simple advice, don't request public input and complain that I didn't join the group. It's not like "Wow, amazing plan!" or "Ugh, horrible plan!", typical internet responses, are constructive in any way.

gweed123 said:
Stations don't just go to where the people are, stations go to where they can have easy connections to other routes. Putting a station at O'Connor instead of Cosburn gives greater connectivity to bus routes, which, if it was located at Cosburn, would need to travel down Pape and then through non-major steets to get back to Broadview.
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Cosburn is a non-major street? You know that only a few hundred people a day take the 8 bus east of Pape, right? The Cosburn bus moves 7000 per day and there's far more people living there. That's where the people and the buses are.

Station locations are far from trivial. They add up to billions of capital dollars in a city-wide plan, impacts dozens of bus routes, affects communities that may or may not benefit from or support the plan, etc. You're not proposing that this area needs better transit or that corridor needs to be studied, you're proposing specific subway lines to be built in specific places.

Facts always help. For instance, people are always bringing up those 17km/hr bus routes compared to the 22-23km/hr LRT projections...you guys should check the TTC service summaries to see how fast buses are actually going, particularly in off-peak times, the weekend, etc. It makes a huge difference when calculating ratios and travel times. Will the LRT lines jump to 28km/hr at noon or on a Sunday?
 
Actually, concerning the map, there's a number of station names that I'd propose.

First of all, Jarvis should be renamed to St. Lawrence. Parliment should be called Distillery District or something to that effect, and River should be West Don Lands, or something to that effect as well. Perhaps "Don" or "West Don." Queen East should be "Riverdale," and Gerrard should be "East Chinatown." I'd also switch Overlea with Flemingdon Park.
On the west side, if you're going on the rail corridor, King West would definitely be replaced by Liberty Village. Queen West would stay the same, because it's the same as the neighborhood. I can't really come up with good replacements for Brock and Sorauren, but I'm sure they exist. Taking a more southernly alignment to the Queensway, I'd first squeeze in a station at Dufferin and Liberty called Liberty Village, then one at King called Parkdale, one at Queen called Queensway, and maybe one other halfway up Roncesvales.
That way, it's a lot less confusing on the meandering southern section of the line. It'll probably also make it easier for the stations to come out to further represent the neighborhoods and areas they're in.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
If you guys aren't going to heed simple advice, don't request public input and complain that I didn't join the group. It's not like "Wow, amazing plan!" or "Ugh, horrible plan!", typical internet responses, are constructive in any way.



Cosburn is a non-major street? You know that only a few hundred people a day take the 8 bus east of Pape, right? The Cosburn bus moves 7000 per day and there's far more people living there. That's where the people and the buses are.

Station locations are far from trivial. They add up to billions of capital dollars in a city-wide plan, impacts dozens of bus routes, affects communities that may or may not benefit from or support the plan, etc. You're not proposing that this area needs better transit or that corridor needs to be studied, you're proposing specific subway lines to be built in specific places.

Facts always help. For instance, people are always bringing up those 17km/hr bus routes compared to the 22-23km/hr LRT projections...you guys should check the TTC service summaries to see how fast buses are actually going, particularly in off-peak times, the weekend, etc. It makes a huge difference when calculating ratios and travel times. Will the LRT lines jump to 28km/hr at noon or on a Sunday?
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I really don't see the point in complaining about a single stop like you are about Cosburn/O'Connor whatever on the Sheppard line. It's so inconsequential I am just shaking my head at what this thread has degenerated into.

To be clear, this thread isn't for alignment discussion. That is in the SOS group page, and anyone can join if they express interest. If you don't want to join SOS, then you don't get a say in the process. It's as simple as that.

What this thread is for is more big picture stuff. Strategy. Suggestions. Progress.

The map is done. It's not set in stone. It's tentative. And any large expenditure like this would go through an EA and exact alignment is decided there. Not on a message board.
 
If you're pushing a map showing some very specific projects with specific stations and alignments, and then post that map on the internet asking for public input, it's just possible that people might comment on the map, particularly since you've requested that they comment on the map.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
If you're pushing a map showing some very specific projects with specific stations and alignments, and then post that map on the internet asking for public input, it's just possible that people might comment on the map, particularly since you've requested that they comment on the map.
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If you have a copy of the Sheppard Subway EA that'd be helpful if you could post the alignment that it determined.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
If you guys aren't going to heed simple advice, don't request public input and complain that I didn't join the group.

Cosburn is a non-major street? You know that only a few hundred people a day take the 8 bus east of Pape, right? The Cosburn bus moves 7000 per day and there's far more people living there. That's where the people and the buses are.
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The map I posted clearly demonstrates just how much you are wrong. Cosburn's residents and buses are in no way being neglected. I have to walk further than 25m to get to my local bus stop and you don't hear me complaining. Only in ficticious reality is such a short distance an issue. Considering that the construction of the DRL could lead to the elimination of the 8 Broadview bus and extension of the 70 O'Connor bus away from Coxwell Stn to run through service along all of O'Connor Drive, a lot more than a few hundred people will be travelling along that corridor and hence it does need a direct link to the subway.

scarberiankhatru said:
Station locations are far from trivial. They add up to billions of capital dollars in a city-wide plan, impacts dozens of bus routes, affects communities that may or may not benefit from or support the plan, etc.
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Per your suggestion, the folk at Mortimer and O'Connor and all their bus transferees will not benefit nor be supportive of the plan. Per SOS' agenda: riders from the 8/70, 62, 87 and 100 buses benefit, the apartment block benefits, the community college benefits, the community centre benfits, the Pape Village BIA benefits. Nuff said.

@ Nfitz- the idea behind the longer box is for the DRL line to someday have the capacity to hold 8-car trainsets as opposed to 6-cars. And if people are already on platform level walking towards/away from trains the distance will not appear to be as long as covering the same length on the surface. (think the Leslie St exits of the Leslie Stn in relation to the platform). And yes the stop should be called O'Connor for it in this case it is the major artery, not Cosburn no matter how many people live in-between Carlaw and Donlands along it. Thanks for at least trying to make an effort towards supporting our cause.
 
Second_in_pie said:
Actually, concerning the map, there's a number of station names that I'd propose.

First of all, Jarvis should be renamed to St. Lawrence. Parliment should be called Distillery District or something to that effect, and River should be West Don Lands, or something to that effect as well. Perhaps "Don" or "West Don." Queen East should be "Riverdale," and Gerrard should be "East Chinatown." I'd also switch Overlea with Flemingdon Park.
On the west side, if you're going on the rail corridor, King West would definitely be replaced by Liberty Village. Queen West would stay the same, because it's the same as the neighborhood. I can't really come up with good replacements for Brock and Sorauren, but I'm sure they exist. Taking a more southernly alignment to the Queensway, I'd first squeeze in a station at Dufferin and Liberty called Liberty Village, then one at King called Parkdale, one at Queen called Queensway, and maybe one other halfway up Roncesvales.
That way, it's a lot less confusing on the meandering southern section of the line. It'll probably also make it easier for the stations to come out to further represent the neighborhoods and areas they're in.
Click to expand...

Well if we're going to go by district names, some of your suggestions are valid. However in that case I'd rename the Queen East stop "Riverside" or "Studio District" but not Riverdale. Gerrard/Pape will be the future site of Riverdale GO Station and a popular mall also exists at this site with the same name. And Chinatown East is at Broadview so that name would be a misnomer. I would think the Strachan stop could be renamed King West Village and then the Atlantic/King stop, Liberty Village. Queen West should be Parkdale. I'm not sure if two stops are needed prior to Bloor in the rail corridor alignment but if a station were to exist adjacent to the No Frills with Dundas the major exit, I'd name it Brockton. Such a location is short walking distance from buses on Lansdowne and the Souraren loft housing community.
 
Fresh Start said:
The map I posted clearly demonstrates just how much you are wrong. Cosburn's residents and buses are in no way being neglected. I have to walk further than 25m to get to my local bus stop and you don't hear me complaining. Only in ficticious reality is such a short distance an issue. Considering that the construction of the DRL could lead to the elimination of the 8 Broadview bus and extension of the 70 O'Connor bus away from Coxwell Stn to run through service along all of O'Connor Drive, a lot more than a few hundred people will be travelling along that corridor and hence it does need a direct link to the subway.

Per your suggestion, the folk at Mortimer and O'Connor and all their bus transferees will not benefit nor be supportive of the plan. Per SOS' agenda: riders from the 8/70, 62, 87 and 100 buses benefit, the apartment block benefits, the community college benefits, the community centre benfits, the Pape Village BIA benefits. Nuff said.
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There's these things called buses. They pick people up and travel along roads. They can take people to subway stations. They can even - get this - turn and take different roads than the ones they're currently on. Amazing! Does this mean we can put a station where there's a massive concentration of people and a busy bus and not just where it's slightly more convenient for another bus that runs every half hour???
 
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