kEiThZ
Superstar
What events are being help on Sheppard that makes the SELRT such as big priority?
And who builds a Transit network to serve one major event? Imagine if we planned our subway network like that.
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saveoursubways (SOS)
- Thread starter kEiThZ
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What events are being help on Sheppard that makes the SELRT such as big priority?
And who builds a Transit network to serve one major event? Imagine if we planned our subway network like that.
nfitz
Superstar
None that I know of ... I can't see the Pan-Am games providing much push on this particular line ... but it's scheduled for completion well before then anyways ... so I don't think it changes it one way or another.
Agreed; some of the posts today are nothing if not odd. It's a great stick for projects that will finish in 2015 to keep them on time, particularly the Spadina subway extension, which will service some of the venues at York U. (though I wouldn't be surprised if it gets delayed past Steeles, while the prioritize the piece to York).
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Victor is working on the website. Let's start getting posters up. Print em and put up where you like.
Who's going to draft the letter for the Scarborough Mirror?
Who's going to draft the letter for the Scarborough Mirror?
Fresh Start
Banned
Don't mind at all. Of course it is a good project. I don't know where the disconnect between what I am trying to articulate and how it's being interpreted is coming from, but BRT is aimed to the best of both worlds: local and regional. It has a local component where there is a lot of population density to make the closer spacing of stops justifiable. Then there are stretches that'll go a kilometre or more without stopping. Why? Because people don't live beside highways. The merits of turning the 191 into a bona fide BRT as opposed to keeping the 45 and 37 buses in operation should be obvious to all. Long-haulers are not concerned with having their commute halted every couple of blocks, but nix several bus stops from Islington and the residential communities will suffer. The nodal coverage is also far less along Islington or Kipling. Both have at a maximum three: condo infill @Queensway/Islington, Etobicoke Ctr and Thistletown; and Humber College South, apartments @Kipling/Dixon and Etobicoke North GO respectively.
The continuous Brown's Ln-Hwy 427-Hwy 27- Humber College Blvd stretch has a lot more going for it: Long Branch GO, 'downtown' Alderwood (Evans), Sherway Business Ctr (Evans/West Mall), Sherway Gdns, big-box bloc @North Queen/Queensway, Cloverdale Mall, Vahalla Executive Centre, Etobicoke Civic Ctr, apartments around Rathburn/West Mall, transfer onto the Eglinton Line, Toronto Congress Ctr, Woodbine Live, Woodbine Ctr, Humber College North, Etobicoke General Hospital, Albion Mall/Centre, apartments at Silverstone.
It's a bankable route that the TTC would vie to have control over. They'll put it on subway maps same as the SRT because of its utility. And they are incapable of handling Ottawa style BRT? Highway median ROW with buses is no more challenging than the Allen Exwy ROW of the Spadina Subway. There's expenditure in building stations along the highway but no where near as expensive or complicated as one might believe. Next time I come back here I'll relay some cost- , time- and capacity estimates that I've come across based on fully functional and highly successful BRT networks elsewhere in the world. Cities that command upwards of 35,000pphpd for a single BRT route.
kEiThZ
Superstar
We'll start with the subway map first. We can put up info about the BRT networks later.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Yeah, I think that's definitely the most important thing to do. If you can't figure out a good timeline or what routes should be LRT, BRT or regular bus service, just stick with the original plan; campaigning for more subways to be included in plans and for proper RT infrastructure to get built with current funding instead of Transit City.
I think that giving a general message like that could easily beat out a proper plan with BRT, LRT, etc on it. It shows that you're not trying to take control of others, including politicians and citizens, and are instead campaigning for the government to make a better plan.
It'll also seem a lot simpler if we just show "these are the subways we should be having" instead of "these subways, these BRTs which will be running in this fashion, as well as these LRTs, and these souped up bus routes." It also gives you a lot more to focus on. You'll be able to zero in on subways vs. transit city. Comparing to how subways and LRTs are built in other cities, looking at growth and density along the big corridors (Sheppard, STC, Eglinton & Don Mills,) and looking at costs and building techniques. A simple point is that the more stuff you propose, the more it's going to take to explain things. Stick to the point, and people get the message; Transit City won't be sufficient for the future and we should be investing in subway.
EDIT: What I did there is a great example of what not to do. Just stick with the main point, and don't go off on long tangents about what your specialized opinion on everything is. Keep yourself on a short leash, and keep to the main idea, making sure people know everything about subways so they can urge their representatives and friends/family to take action in terms of subways and more responsible transit planning.
junctionist
Senior Member
An important thing is to remember to always be reading to attack the "we can't afford it" mentality because you don't want to come off as some young and naive dreamers. This should be a part of the promotional materials, because it is very important to the efficacy of the group.
Which is exactly why I'm harping on cost-neutrality with TC. People like to see what other options they can get for the same amount of money. If you start asking for more, people will lose interest. "Why spend $15 billion on 'this', when you can spend the same amount and get 'this'?"
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
And I think this is where the phase idea comes in. For the next 15 years, our transit expansion plan could be about the same as transit city. Maybe it could be a bit more expensive, and additional funding to push the plan further would be totally acceptable, but it should be a relatively short-term focus. This is what we can do with the transit city money in the same timeframe. Then, this is what happens when we get more funding. It's an important part of transit planning, making the proper investments over a certain amount of time, and you guys should remind people of that.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Do we have measurements yet of each extension, so that we can roughly cost them?
I posted them in a pdf file in the thread last Tuesday or Wednesday, haha.
doady
Senior Member
I think that is too much subway to be an affordable alternative to Transit City. It looks to much like a fantasy proposal.
I say only the following should be proposed:
1. Sheppard to Scarborough City Centre
2. Sheppard to Downsview
3. Bloor-Danforth to East Mall
4. Bloor-Danforth to Scarborough City Centre
5. Eglinton West in its entirety
6. Pape from Union to Danforth
The rest are not necessary at this time, if ever.
I don't agree with the idea of a subway to Square One, and not only because I think it is a bad idea. The main problem is that Mississauga would not support such an extension, and Toronto would not be obligated to fund it, so it is not Toronto's problem and therefore it is beyond the scope of SOS.
There will already be very strong support from both GO and MT for an extension to East Mall. The East Mall station will shorten a huge number of GO and MT bus routes (not to mentional some TTC routes also). It is the best location possible for a regional terminal (the new terminal at Kipling is a huge mistake).
The Eglinton West subway would have a lot of support from Mississauga and GO too, because, with the proper alignment (i.e, with a station at Renforth), it would connect directly to GO and MT's BRT services. Regionally, Eglinton East is far less important, so that can be skipped. I don't think there is any need for three east-west lines east of Yonge, yet.
The DRL is only needed east of Union. And alone that is already enough to make proposal less ignorant of downtown transit than Transit City.
I say only the following should be proposed:
1. Sheppard to Scarborough City Centre
2. Sheppard to Downsview
3. Bloor-Danforth to East Mall
4. Bloor-Danforth to Scarborough City Centre
5. Eglinton West in its entirety
6. Pape from Union to Danforth
The rest are not necessary at this time, if ever.
I don't agree with the idea of a subway to Square One, and not only because I think it is a bad idea. The main problem is that Mississauga would not support such an extension, and Toronto would not be obligated to fund it, so it is not Toronto's problem and therefore it is beyond the scope of SOS.
There will already be very strong support from both GO and MT for an extension to East Mall. The East Mall station will shorten a huge number of GO and MT bus routes (not to mentional some TTC routes also). It is the best location possible for a regional terminal (the new terminal at Kipling is a huge mistake).
The Eglinton West subway would have a lot of support from Mississauga and GO too, because, with the proper alignment (i.e, with a station at Renforth), it would connect directly to GO and MT's BRT services. Regionally, Eglinton East is far less important, so that can be skipped. I don't think there is any need for three east-west lines east of Yonge, yet.
The DRL is only needed east of Union. And alone that is already enough to make proposal less ignorant of downtown transit than Transit City.
Fresh Start
Banned
Sheppard to Downsview is what's never necessary, I agree with you on that, apart from the ability to service trains out of Wilson Yard it has no ridership basis.
As for Mississuaga, yes scrap that extension too. If the subway's extended to Dixie GO via Sherway there is nothing more that's needed there. I'd sooner recommend a branch of the Hurontario LRT routed parallel the GO tracks to offer direct service beween CCTT and the subway. Eglinton subway's a much more direct path to Square One via the Transitway (10-15 mins max).
However a full DRL is needed, if for no other reason, to offer the possibility of interlining to the airport.
As for Mississuaga, yes scrap that extension too. If the subway's extended to Dixie GO via Sherway there is nothing more that's needed there. I'd sooner recommend a branch of the Hurontario LRT routed parallel the GO tracks to offer direct service beween CCTT and the subway. Eglinton subway's a much more direct path to Square One via the Transitway (10-15 mins max).
However a full DRL is needed, if for no other reason, to offer the possibility of interlining to the airport.
Ansem
Banned
As a commuter who use it everyday at peak hours, It is badly needed.
Everyday Sheppard West at peak hour is a disaster. The avenue is too narrow to put LRT or BRT. Its completely congested and buses both the 84 and the express 196B can respect their schedules due to congestions and drivers incompetence.
The bus plateform is overcrowed and even when 2 or 3 bus arrives, they can't take everybody
Bathurst and Sheppard is a major intersection that needs rapid transit like it was meant.
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