Rocco Rossi wants subways too!

[grey]

You have valid concerns here, and if we were going to get LRT which doesn't take advantage of modern technologies like GPS tracking, I'd be concerned too.

Imagine this: no waiting outdoors for your lrt in winter; you sit in the nearby Tim Hortons sipping hot chocolate, and watch the plasma screen showing a live map, and arrival times of all the next vehicles to the station. In fact, your Blackberry will show you the wait time, so you don't have to leave the house too early or too late to make it to the stop on time.

There's an app for that.

I'm serious, you can get that info right now on your iPhone or any internet-capable device. http://www.nextbus.com/

 

[grey]

So can someone explain to me how selling a profitable asset somehow reduces our debt? It would definitely cause a surplus for a year, but after that there would be $50 million per year in lost revenue. Honestly, I'd prefer that we didn't take the money now and have more money in the budget in the future to do things like reduce debt and building subways. If it only costs $2 billion to completely eliminate it the debt, then why don't we just pay it off without selling profitable assets. Then we would save 500 million per year, if his logic is correct.

We already are, but it's going to take several years (someone mentioned that it's being paid at $450M/year).

The problem is that the money to pay off the $2B debt has to come from somewhere. Rossi is suggesting that we sell City assets to pay off the debt immediately. That's his plan to free up those annual $450M payments to put toward subway construction.

I think if they do end up going that route, they should:

a) sell air-rights to over TTC properties to finance construction projects.
b) downsize the new station designs -- do they really need to be 1,000,000 square foot high-ceiling starchitect masterpieces? Seems to me we could build half a dozen Pape stations for the cost of one Downsview station.

But really, in the grander scheme of things, the DRL would be pretty redundant with all the development and underservicing happening in the old suburbs. Pretty sure that would just be a big waste of money. I'm not saying DRL is a bad idea, but it would be better at this point to run LRT all over the place with crossovers at intersections on slightly above grade tracks (i.e. Transit City).

 

[kettal]

But really, in the grander scheme of things, the DRL would be pretty redundant with all the development and underservicing happening in the old suburbs. Pretty sure that would just be a big waste of money. I'm not saying DRL is a bad idea, but it would be better at this point to run LRT all over the place with crossovers at intersections on slightly above grade tracks (i.e. Transit City).

Then how do you propose Bloor-Yonge station be saved from the looming capacity problem?

 

[fanoftoronto]

You have valid concerns here, and if we were going to get LRT which doesn't take advantage of modern technologies like GPS tracking, I'd be concerned too.

Imagine this: no waiting outdoors for your lrt in winter; you sit in the nearby Tim Hortons sipping hot chocolate, and watch the plasma screen showing a live map, and arrival times of all the next vehicles to the station. In fact, your Blackberry will show you the wait time, so you don't have to leave the house too early or too late to make it to the stop on time.

When's that Tim Horton's gonna come up?? coz it's not there right now. The plasma screen and apps on your phone are excellent, but it relies on Tim Horton's and Starbucks being there. So if I was taking a bus to Jane and Eglinton in hopes of catching an LRT in the winter, where will I be waiting and watching the plasma, there's not a Tim Hortons in sight?

 

[kettal]

When's that Tim Horton's gonna come up?? coz it's not there right now. The plasma screen and apps on your phone are excellent, but it relies on Tim Horton's and Starbucks being there. So if I was taking a bus to Jane and Eglinton in hopes of catching an LRT in the winter, where will I be waiting and watching the plasma, there's not a Tim Hortons in sight?

Tims, Starbucks, Country Style, and Joe's Coffee should be racing to build cafes near these stations. Guaranteed customer flow, all day every day, it's a franchisee's dream.

 

[Fresh Start]

LRT as a vision for this city has been tarnished by Miller and co. They had their chance on St. Clair. They could have shown what LRTt could be with wider stops and proof of payment system and new vehicles. Instead we got a line that is only slightly more reliable but not much faster. This is what the residents see as LRT and people don't like it.

If Sheppard E LRT ever opens and is done right it could be a model but again the mayor messed up what should have been a natural subway expansion. Finch would have been a good example and not as controversial but again politics came into play and this is the mess we are left with.

+1

True Miller/Mihevc/Giambrone had every chance in the world to prove the capabilities of surface rail with the prototypical Transit City line down St Clair West. But now that the people have seen and listened and felt first-hand what it is, we have every right to question whether we need more of its ilk.

So many things went wrong with that thing including the stop spacings. I mean gawd, one could literally take 25 steps and head from the Vaughan Rd LRT stop to the one at Bathurst. Northcliffe/Dufferin same thing. Ditto Warren/Russell. Now I hear the Sheppard East LRT will be 30 stops long, which includes a ridiculous number of them east of McCowan. It's not just St Clair though. Even nostalgics must be fed up with how slow and unreliable the downtown streetcars have become. Until the TTC gets a knack for route management, what business does it have proposing for more dedicated lanes through mixed traffic? More streetcars to become a conga line of bumper to bumper due to the pratfalls of bunching/stalling?

Calgary we ain't. We have no space on the surface for 3-car montrosities down congested urban corridors. We have no transit malls, they refuse to even consider side-of-roadway or elevated ROW designs. The whole thing is turning out to be a complete disaster. I had high hopes for a Mayor to come along and save Toronto from itself too. What a pity.

 

[fanoftoronto]

Tims, Starbucks, Country Style, and Joe's Coffee should be racing to build cafes near these stations. Guaranteed customer flow, all day every day, it's a franchisee's dream.

There are many subway stations without any Tims, Starbucks etc near them, and subways guarentee even more customers than LRT. I find it hard to believe they would start building near LRT stops.

 

[Fresh Start]

Tims, Starbucks, Country Style, and Joe's Coffee should be racing to build cafes near these stations. Guaranteed customer flow, all day every day, it's a franchisee's dream.

I'd get off my LRT commute to go buy a coffee en route but I'm too apprehensive that somehow I won't make it back to the tram-shed in time and watch as the dang thing pulls off, knowing that the next tram won't arrive for another 10 minutes.

 

[grey]

Then how do you propose Bloor-Yonge station be saved from the looming capacity problem?

If I were to pick my battles, I think it's far more important to address the service needs of the suburbs (which Transit City does in many directions) rather than one bottleneck in the system, high profile though it may be. I think the highly publicized and growing gridlock problems are a more immediate concern.

Also, the new LRT routes will likely take some pressure off Bloor in the meantime (a lot of people will be diverted away from it once more direct routes to their destinations are available).

 

[Electrify]

LRT as a vision for this city has been tarnished by Miller and co. They had their chance on St. Clair. They could have shown what LRTt could be with wider stops and proof of payment system and new vehicles. Instead we got a line that is only slightly more reliable but not much faster. This is what the residents see as LRT and people don't like it.

If Sheppard E LRT ever opens and is done right it could be a model but again the mayor messed up what should have been a natural subway expansion. Finch would have been a good example and not as controversial but again politics came into play and this is the mess we are left with.

Having seen the stop spacing on Sheppard East, I think it will help to cement the term "Streetcar City", even to supporters of LRT. The best plan for true LRT in the region goes to Peel:

http://www.hurontario-main.ca/PDFs/Newsletter 3.pdf

 

[kettal]

I'd get off my LRT commute to go buy a coffee en route but I'm too apprehensive that somehow I won't make it back to the tram-shed in time and watch as the dang thing pulls off, knowing that the next tram won't arrive for another 10 minutes.

Take a glance at the info screen, you'll know exactly how much time you have, and how far behind the second train is. Nobody is forcing you to buy a coffee, but building a cafe where thousands of pedestrians will be waiting every day just makes too much business sense.

I don't expect tim hortons to show up at minor stops, e.g. Russell Road station... but in the subway scenario, there would be no station there, so it's still better than nothing.

 

[LAz]

Imagine this: no waiting outdoors for your lrt in winter; you sit in the nearby Tim Hortons sipping hot chocolate, and watch the plasma screen showing a live map, and arrival times of all the next vehicles to the station. In fact, your Blackberry will show you the wait time, so you don't have to leave the house too early or too late to make it to the stop on time.

They already did that with all the bus routes in chicago.
They could do it with all the buses in toronto, and avoid spending millions on LRT, which would be better spent on subways.

On top of this though... the things break down. It is not always totally accurate.

You also ignore the technological divide. Some people do not use computers. Other like myself refuse to get a blackberry or iphone.






I just wanna see continual subway building. 1 km a year. Continually non stop. (that's a little bit, btw, but over time it will be a lot)





edit: Having seen the stop spacing on Sheppard East, I think it will help to cement the term "Streetcar City", even to supporters of LRT.
-speaking of this obscenity, how is the construction of it coming along?

 

[kettal]

I just wanna see continual subway building. 1 km a year. Continually non stop. (that's a little bit, btw, but over time it will be a lot)

At 1km per year we could have Eglinton complete by 2040. With Transit City, we will have Eglinton complete by 2016. hmm...

 

[LAz]

We do not need all of eglinton as a metro right away. At any rate- I did say that it was slow. My personal wish is that they just start with finishing sheppard.

1 km a year is the minimum that we need. The bare minimum - and even then we barely keeping up.

 

[fanoftoronto]

At 1km per year we could have Eglinton complete by 2040. With Transit City, we will have Eglinton complete by 2016. hmm...

Eglinton LRT was not even scheduled to be completed by 2016. The first phase was to be opened 2016, second phase 2018 and airport phase by 2020. And this was before the funding postponing by the provincial government. So, if everything went on schedule, the Eglinton LRT will be finished by 2022 not including any other delays.