Rocco Rossi wants subways too!

[Asterix]

I believe he is. Why did no one think of this before?? It's so easy!

Anytime anyone uses a variation on the phrase "the can very easily...", there's the automatic assumption that they really don't know what they are talking about.

On the whole, we're all amateurs playing on this message board. Some may have a better understanding of issues and operations than others, but it should at least be accepted knowledge that real solutions or implementations are never "easy". If they were, they'd be done.

Many politicians are elected on platforms that they would do this, this and that since it was all so 'obvious' and could 'easily' be done, only to have to face reality once elected. That's just a sign of a politician failing to really understand the issues before spouting off and an electorate that continually looks for that catch-all, quick fix answer.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Whether you agree with Rossi's idea, it does bring up something: the lack of integration between the TTC and GO Transit is deplorable! With most GTA transit systems, GO stations are transit hubs where buses will pull in and are scheduled to hold for connections. With the exception of Rouge Hill and Long Branch, no TTC services pull directly into the stations, let alone hold for connections.

York University GO station might be the worst: There is no parking at this station, so driving to it is not an option. The YRT 3B Thornhill-York U branch offers excellent local service to the Thornhill area, and detours to the York University GO station to connect with the train before heading off to the university. Meanwhile, to get there by TTC you either:

a)take the 60 Steeles West bus to Petrolia and connect to a 41B Keele bus and take it to Wildcat Rd. From there, it is a 300m in (the YRT bus pulls directly in front of the entrance). Also worth noting that the Keele bus only operates one-way through this loop, so it is a 800m walk back to Steeles Ave on the return trip.

b)Take the 41B bus north through York University, along Steeles, and back down to Wildcat Rd. From here it is a 300m walk.

For the record, this station is located in the City of Toronto. This lack of coordination is a shame since in many cases, GO would be more beneficial to the commuter. Let's compare travel times:

GO Kipling to Union: 20 minutes
TTC Kipling to Union: 36 minutes

GO Bloor to Union: 15 minutes
TTC Dundas West to Union: 23 minutes

GO Oriole to Union: 28 minutes
TTC Leslie to Union: 39 minutes

GO Danforth to Union: 14 minutes
TTC Main St to Union: 27 minutes

GO Kennedy to Union: 19 minutes
TTC Kennedy to Union: 36 minutes

While walking between TTC and GO may reduce some of the time savings, it should still be more than acceptable to act as a relief route.

+1. GO stations should be treated like subway stations (or at minimum served by peak period detours when the trains are running) with a bus loop and connection facility. There really is no way currently to easily connect with the GO network on the TTC network.

BTW York U station is total mistake and should be moved south to Sheppard Ave W.

WRT to Ssiguy. I guess it's a chicken and egg syndrome. Frequent service isn't really needed in the suburbs (905) and ridership is (I think) pretty poor in the 416 to justify GO offering even 5 - 10 min service there. Should GO lead the way and offer frequent service to the 416 region in order to encourage the TTC to connect with the GO better, GO would likely lose money in the short to medium term until TTC makes these connections. Or should the TTC begin serving the GO stations as proposed and show GO that there is demand in the 416 for it's type of service and thus GO would increase it's service in the 416

 

[lead82]

Wow, I'm shocked at the slow speeds of the GO trains. 28mins from Oriole to Union? 20 mins from Kipling/Kennedy. That is super slow. Those would be cut in half with electric trains. This is why we need more subways. The GO rail network not only has terrible frequency but uber slow speeds. I'll take the crowding on the subway lines with 2min service and an extra 5-10 mins anyday.

It's sad that our GO rail network can't be put to better use.

 

[rbt]

Wow, I'm shocked at the slow speeds of the GO trains. 28mins from Oriole to Union? 20 mins from Kipling/Kennedy. That is super slow. Those would be cut in half with electric trains. This is why we need more subways. The GO rail network not only has terrible frequency but uber slow speeds. I'll take the crowding on the subway lines with 2min service and an extra 5-10 mins anyday.

The engineers on board can comment better on this; but it appears (to me as a rider) that the speed slows down dramatically through the complex of switches while approaching Union. Electrified trains going through the same movements, with todays signalling and switches, would take pretty much the same time frame.

Both the signalling and switches/track are being improved. Was it from todays 15mph to 45mph once complete?

It's sad that our GO rail network can't be put to better use.

Step 1) Buy the land to run on their own rails.
Step 2) Improve 100 year old choke points (Union Station, many rail-rail and rail-road crossings)
Step 3) Service may now be significantly improved.

Step 1 and 2 are in progress. We have many threads describing complaints about construction noise actually.

 

[Rowe]

^ GO should be updated before new transit in Toronto. From how I see it, more and more people are coming into Toronto to work.Those people clog up Toronto's roads and air. If GO was updated to the best it could be, it could appeal to more people. Also, I'm all up for transit, but I'm not too sure on light rail for Toronto.

Go big or go home.

 

[reaperexpress]

The YRT 3B Thornhill-York U branch offers excellent local service to the Thornhill area, and detours to the York University GO station to connect with the train before heading off to the university. Meanwhile, to get there by TTC you either:

I laughed when I read that.

Have you ever taken the 3? It's got to be the worst route in the GTA. I can't imagine how any other route that runs on roads without traffic, with a 20min (scheduled) rush hour frequency and a loose schedule, can have so many delays. Sometimes a bus will simply not come and you're stuck waiting an extra 20 or 40 minutes depending on the time of day. It's also the only YRT bus I've ever been short-turned on, it doesn't go in a direct route anywhere (but I guess that's the nature of local YRT buses).

 

[Electrify]

York U GO Station won't even exist in a few years. The TTC represents Toronto residents and their interests, not the 905, and as such it must figure that people from within Toronto wouldn't be taking a GO train from Union to the middle of nowhere to then transfer onto a bus to get to class, particularly when there's a far more frequent subway + busway system already in place. The plan's to make a direct subway/rail connection at Sheppard West.

Seeing as how the GO line runs southbound in the morning/northbound in the evening, the only people taking it to class are those from west and north York Region. I was referring to those who live around Bathurst and Steeles, or Keele and Finch.

+1. GO stations should be treated like subway stations (or at minimum served by peak period detours when the trains are running) with a bus loop and connection facility. There really is no way currently to easily connect with the GO network on the TTC network.

Was also thinking that this transport strategy really alienates the middle class. The upper class will drive to GO stations, while the lower class takes the TTC bus to the subway. Offering proper bus connections to the GO train would provide an efficient commuting option for middle class commuters, and would help to bridge the quality of commuting between the lower and upper class, thus making public transit within Toronto more about getting people to their destinations rather than how much money you make.

I laughed when I read that.

Have you ever taken the 3? It's got to be the worst route in the GTA. I can't imagine how any other route that runs on roads without traffic, with a 20min (scheduled) rush hour frequency and a loose schedule, can have so many delays. Sometimes a bus will simply not come and you're stuck waiting an extra 20 or 40 minutes depending on the time of day. It's also the only YRT bus I've ever been short-turned on, it doesn't go in a direct route anywhere (but I guess that's the nature of local YRT buses).

I'll admit I haven't taken it in several years, but I do know what you mean by how indirect it is. While someone near Don Mills and Steeles would not be better off taking this bus to the York U GO station, those around Bathurst and Center and beyond would have a fairly direct route to the GO station.

 

[Mapleson]

The engineers on board can comment better on this; but it appears (to me as a rider) that the speed slows down dramatically through the complex of switches while approaching Union. Electrified trains going through the same movements, with todays signalling and switches, would take pretty much the same time frame.

Both the signalling and switches/track are being improved. Was it from todays 15mph to 45mph once complete?

On the USRC east end (Union Station to just past Cherry St.) the track speed is limited to 30 mph and 15 mph on turnouts/switches.

In the other direction, trains to/from Lakeshore West may operate at 60 mph and any using the Weston subdivision (Milton/Georgetown/Barrie) are limited to 45 mph.

The current set of USRC improvements to be finished in 2012 will at a minimum remove the switch speed restriction. I haven't looked at the details enough to say if they'll be relaxing geometric restrictions as well.

^ GO should be updated before new transit in Toronto. From how I see it, more and more people are coming into Toronto to work.Those people clog up Toronto's roads and air. If GO was updated to the best it could be, it could appeal to more people. Also, I'm all up for transit, but I'm not too sure on light rail for Toronto.

Go big or go home.

GO Transit has big dreams. If the provience pays for them, we'll all reap the benefits.