Rob Ford's Transit plan

[gweed123]

It was drawn on the map for the Big Move report. It's location hasn't been chosen yet. Presumably it will be on the map at the upcoming public meetings for that project; though likely just a shaded corridor.

The Big Move is largely a collection of City/Regional Gov't plans that have been thrown into a single, over-arching plan. Metrolinx has had very little to do with any of the transit planning inside of the City of Toronto, except for providing funding for it.

I don't see why you are obsessing on this issue. It's seems like a very minor detail in the whole scheme of things. The DRL project has been going ahead since about May, with very little interest from the media, despite numerous press releases and comments from Giambrone.

How is the single most important piece of transit infrastructure needed in this city a "minor detail"?

Since when does media attention = importance? There are plenty of very important issues that the media completely ignores. People would rather hear about Lindsay Lohan's jail time than genocides occuring right now. That pretty much sums up the media's ability to properly gauge the importance of issues.

Would you prefer that they just drop the plan?

No, I would have preferred that the DRL was included in Transit City from the beginning, or at the very least added when Metrolinx started showing interest. It was placed in the 25 year portion of the Big Move because the TTC didn't see it as a priority. Had the TTC had it at the top of their to-do list when Transit City was first announced, I'm pretty sure it would have been near the top of Metrolinx's to-do list as well.

 

[Rainforest]

exactly what I have been saying. Its great to see someone with a similar view. Streetcars are a nuisance and take up way too much of the road rendering it pretty much useless to any other vehicle. I agree keep them in certain areas for a historic appeal.....but having them run rampant across the city makes the city look old.

The problem is not streetcars, but the narrow downtown streets they run on. Those streets were built without consideration for today's level of car ownership, hence they have no dedicated left-turn lanes and very limited off-street parking.

If you replace streetcars with buses, those buses won't run faster. They will have to deal with cars parked in the curb lanes, and cars waiting to make a left in the center lane.

Removing the existing streetcar infrastructure would be a waste of money.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

A quick google search shows James Alcock is a member of the Toronto Party.

His "Get Toronto moving plan is here:

http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/

A pretty typical plan:

-Extend the subway to Sherway Gardens
-Use the Scarborough ROW for a subway, and extend to zoo.
-Replace the streetcars with electric trolleybuses(Why??)

Actually, the plan is pretty bad. I think Rob Ford used some of the ideas from this plan.
-

The was a Highway 442 plan to link up with Hwy 2 and the 402 from the Gardiner.


http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/uploads/Highway_448.pdf

Runs right through Scarborough.

 

[nfitz]

How is the single most important piece of transit infrastructure needed in this city a "minor detail"?

I don't think it is a minor detail. But it's clear that it wasn't the first priority. However it's always been on the table, well during the second term, unlike other possible projects such as finishing the Sheppard subway, building a subway on Eglinton west of Jane, finishing the Spadina expressway, etc. I'm not sure it's the single most important piece of transit infrastructure. It adds capacity to the network, particularily on the Yonge line, however it looks like we can make do with the current capacity for a few more years, which will be boosted by the new trains, the 7th carriage (if they order it), the more frequent trains (with the new ATC), the increased capacity at Bloor-Yonge (with the new crowd control procedure). It only becomes critical if the Yonge line gets extended further north ... and remember that in November 2008, Metrolinx put the Yonge subway on the list of projects to be finished by 2023.

Since when does media attention = importance?

Fair comment.

No, I would have preferred that the DRL was included in Transit City from the beginning, or at the very least added when Metrolinx started showing interest. It was placed in the 25 year portion of the Big Move because the TTC didn't see it as a priority. Had the TTC had it at the top of their to-do list when Transit City was first announced, I'm pretty sure it would have been near the top of Metrolinx's to-do list as well.

The City of Toronto voted in 2009 to request Metrolinx move the DRL to the 15-year portion of the Big Move and that the TTC should start studying it. Which was then delayed somewhat because the City then deferred the study funding in order to buy the new LRVs (not sure where the funding magically reappeared from this year ... presumably the 2010 budget ... but that it did, surely demonstrates something).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Here it is. Toronto Party Highway Plan.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Being cynical, the case for TC is that 'this would be great to help improve the city'. Kind of 'discretionary' funding from the province.

The case that soon can be made for the DRL is 'if we don't have this, the city will break (overloading of the existing subway)'.

Better to get the province to fully commit to the discretionary funding before they realize they have to also build the DRL.

Granted I too think the order is backwards (you need the DRL before you start funneling more people on to YUS), but this cynical interpretation means that both should be built instead of only one. Who knows if this is how the city politicians think about it.

Transit City will also provide more crosstown service. Not everyone wants to go downtown. I used to work in Scarborough but lived in Etobicoke, which meant taking the Bloor-Danforth to get crosstown. With Eglinton, Sheppard East, and Finch West, there are more rapid transit to use to get across, other than Bloor-Danforth. The Downtown Relief Line is now being studied. In the meantime, the Spadina extension is being built, which should help relieve some pressure off Yonge.

 

[nfitz]

In the meantime, the Spadina extension is being built, which should help relieve some pressure off Yonge.

Sheppard West station won't relieve any pressure (or else Downsview would have already relieved it).

The next station is Finch West, at Keele. How many people will head to this station, and head downtown, rather than heading to Finch? A few maybe ... but I expect most go to Downsview.

The next station is York University, which won't have any buses or parking, so it won't relieve the Yonge line.

The next station is Steeles West at Jane ... by now we are 8 km from Yonge, and 10 km from the Yonge subway. We might see some 905 residents who drive to Finch, start driving to new stations along Jane; but I'm not sure it's going to make a big difference.

 

[Dan416]

At this point there's no point arguing about whether Miller and Giambrone care about the DRL whatsoever. What matters is who supports the DRL NOW! There's only one answer to that question.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Why can't we get something like this done?

 

[nfitz]

At this point there's no point arguing about whether Miller and Giambrone care about the DRL whatsoever. What matters is who supports the DRL NOW! There's only one answer to that question.

Among candidates? Pantalone and Thomson I'd think ... without digging.

 

[mgl]

exactly what I have been saying. Its great to see someone with a similar view. Streetcars are a nuisance and take up way too much of the road rendering it pretty much useless to any other vehicle. I agree keep them in certain areas for a historic appeal.....but having them run rampant across the city makes the city look old.

The streetcars were on Toronto streets long before there were this many cars. The solution isn't to remove a streetcar, which can carry dozens of people at once, but to remove cars, most of which have one person inside them. Charge a congestion fee for the right to drive on downtown streets and then both cars and streetcars will move more quickly. There are just too many cars in this city. If you're driving downtown, you are part of the problem.

 

[hbl33]

How hard is it to make certain streets and roads car-free zone in Canada?

 

[Frankie1984]

The streetcars were on Toronto streets long before there were this many cars. The solution isn't to remove a streetcar, which can carry dozens of people at once, but to remove cars, most of which have one person inside them. Charge a congestion fee for the right to drive on downtown streets and then both cars and streetcars will move more quickly. There are just too many cars in this city. If you're driving downtown, you are part of the problem.

And to add to that. I think cars should be banned from parking on city streets with streetcar tracks during the day. It doesn't make any sense that a lot of the time, streetcars and cars share just one lane. That's what leads to congestion.

 

[Dan416]

Among candidates? Pantalone and Thomson I'd think ... without digging.

Has Pantalone made the DRL a part of his platform? That would be news to me.

 

[hbl33]

And to add to that. I think cars should be banned from parking on city streets with streetcar tracks during the day. It doesn't make any sense that a lot of the time, streetcars and cars share just one lane. That's what leads to congestion.

In fact, cars should be banned during weekdays along Dundas from Chinatown to Yonge St!