Rob Ford's Transit plan

[gristle]

As someone who lives downtown, I don't see any improvements for downtown transit. In fact, scrapping streetcars would reduce transit capacity downtown. Streetcars are not the same as subways.

Ideas such as a downtown relief line don't appear to be on the radar when it comes to debates over whether suburbs are better served by light rail or subways.

Cancellation of any existing orders for trains will result in huge costs to the city.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Dudes, you're forgetting the most important thing with all this babble about boring stuff like feasibility. Check this out:

How many dollar signs does YOUR transit plan lead to? One? Two? Amateurs. With Rob Ford's great plan involving red lines and people wearing black while carrying folders, we're on the road to all kinds of dollar signs. Big ones.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

RF is wasted on politics, he should work for Russell Oliver (aka Cashman) instead. Correction - he should BE the character.

AoD

 

[ssiguy2]

Remember this is a 5 year plan NOT a 10 year one so it doesn't state Eg or DRL can't be started after 2015.
Also, there is NO reason why this can't be built by 2015. Environmental studies are done and can be be put out to tender immediately. Only Toronto couldn't pull it off. Madrid was doing 10 km a year for god sakes. Both extensions can be started and under construction at the same time and using the private sector {as opposed to TTC labour} will make sure it get's done as part of the contract as is done in the rest of the planet.
Using cut and cover is faster and cheaper to build and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used in suburban areas. Torontonians have become so use to everything being built at a snails pace that actual shovels in the ground is considered a real triumph.

 

[adeel]

Remember this is a 5 year plan NOT a 10 year one so it doesn't state Eg or DRL can't be started after 2015.
Also, there is NO reason why this can't be built by 2015. Environmental studies are done and can be be put out to tender immediately. Only Toronto couldn't pull it off. Madrid was doing 10 km a year for god sakes. Both extensions can be started and under construction at the same time and using the private sector {as opposed to TTC labour} will make sure it get's done as part of the contract as is done in the rest of the planet.
Using cut and cover is faster and cheaper to build and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used in suburban areas. Torontonians have become so use to everything being built at a snails pace that actual shovels in the ground is considered a real triumph.

+1

 

[DSC]

. Both extensions can be started and under construction at the same time and using the private sector {as opposed to TTC labour} will make sure it get's done as part of the contract as is done in the rest of the planet. .

Almost all TTC construction DOES use private contractors right now - do you think that they will somehow work faster or better if Rob Ford is "in charge"??

 

[Kaiserhead77]

Etobicoke?

I find it interesting that his current constituents in Etobicoke receive absolutely no benefits from his transit plan. I guess not one of those 87 calls a day was ever about improving transit access to Rexdale, Humber College, the airport, or Finch/Kipling. Its also funny how there's no link to the priority neighrtbourhoods despite the vague reference to how transit creates economic opportunities.

 

[Calrissian]

Anyone that believes this is ever going to happen with Ford as Mayor is dreaming almost as much as Rob Ford is with his plan to BE mayor.

 

[Kaiserhead77]

BTW, only a socialist would propose a plan without road tolls or road pricing, road tolls tied to demand are about as free market as it gets.

 

[leopetr]

I'm surprised more of the SOS gang isn't backing this, as it sounds exactly like the SOS plan to me, minus the expensive bits.

Environmental studies are done and can be be put out to tender immediately.

There's no study for a Bloor-Danforth extension to STC.

Madrid was doing 10 km a year for god sakes.

How far ahead were they planning, though? I'm going to guess that they started planning those 10 km many years before actually building them.

Both extensions can be started and under construction at the same time and using the private sector {as opposed to TTC labour} will make sure it get's done as part of the contract as is done in the rest of the planet.

The rest of the planet is going way over budget on their subways. London went way over budget on the Millennium line, and NYC is going way over budget on the 2nd Avenue subway. Private sector isn't made of magical pixie dust. They will want us to pay them for all the risk they incur, and tougher accounting rules today means that we can't hide debt off the books by structuring outsourcing contracts in a clever way the way we did in the 90s.

Using cut and cover is faster and cheaper to build and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used in suburban areas.

There's no subway-appropriate corridor, suburban or otherwise, that goes from Kennedy to STC. You'd have to expropriate a lot of houses to do cut-and-cover to STC.

Alternatively, Kennedy station could be rebuilt from scratch somewhere else. That may or may not be feasible, but it would be expensive.

 

[GraphicMatt]

You have to REALLY not give a shit about public transit to propose nothing for your own ward. But, hey, synchronized traffic lights! More road extensions! Mayor Ford will cut down his automobile commute from Etobicoke to City Hall significantly.

My second or third favourite thing about the video (It's so hard to choose!) is the photos of Ford interacting with transit. There's one where he's looking at a MetroPass machine completely dumbfounded, all "What the hell is this?"

 

[nfitz]

Remember this is a 5 year plan NOT a 10 year one so it doesn't state Eg or DRL can't be started after 2015.
Also, there is NO reason why this can't be built by 2015. Environmental studies are done and can be be put out to tender immediately. Only Toronto couldn't pull it off. Madrid was doing 10 km a year for god sakes. Both extensions can be started and under construction at the same time and using the private sector {as opposed to TTC labour} will make sure it get's done as part of the contract as is done in the rest of the planet.
Using cut and cover is faster and cheaper to build and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used in suburban areas. Torontonians have become so use to everything being built at a snails pace that actual shovels in the ground is considered a real triumph.

Uh, are you serious? There are so many false statements in what you said, that I don't even know where to begin. There is no EA for SRT; TTC said that Sheppard's was too old and would have to be updated in 2003! There is no design. Cut-and-cover isn't necessarily cheaper. Ford won't stand for LRT construction problems on roads, yet you are proposing cut-and-cover down Sheppard??????????????

–∞

 

[ssiguy2]

As a matter of fact yes. Why? Because he will not use this stupid union or nothing rates for tendering. Often that means working not just 9 to 5 before demanding double time as stated in the union contract. If that means 7AM to 9PM 7 days a week then so be it. That would be impossible under a union contract due to huge amounts needed for overtime.
I also don't understand why you can be against this plan but back Smithermans. Atleast this isn't promising seniors free rides regardless of their income. Also Smitherman plan states that the YorkU ext be speeded up for 2015 like it's his idea. It's already under construction so how he could have it under one of his transit acheivements is political in the the extreme.
Also note that by 2015 the only thing Smitherman's plan will have completed is the SWLRT which no one seems to want and a blip of a Waterfront LRT.
Ford's plan seems to make far more sense than Smitherman's irrational, political, fanciful proposal that will help bankrupt the system over the long term.
I also agree with Ford's stright forward talk about the road system. Everyone else seems to think everyone is all of a sudden going to jump on transit in the next 10 years. At least he's realistic and honest enough to state that not everyone is going {or wants to} take transit and that there are nearly 2 million vehicles in Toronto so you need a good road system as well. He speaks transportation as opposed to all the other candidates speak transit alone which is not only irrational but also irresponsible.
You may love or hate the guy but of him or Smitherman, who seems to be the only real contender left, Ford's plan is more logical, realistic, responsible, and practical.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The inevitable Steve Munro smackdown: http://stevemunro.ca/?p=4333

Big points: Running a B-D extension along the SRT route is essentially impossible; 790 million of the committed provincial funding Ford wants to use is actually earmarked for Viva in York Region; his cost estimates are off by over a billion dollars; replacing streetcars with buses on downtown streets would cause more congestion, not less.

 

[nfitz]

I also don't understand why you can be against this plan but back Smithermans

You seem to be as ignorant about how TTC contracting really works as you are about backing Smitherman's plan.

I've trashed Smitherman's plan relentlessly. But as bad as it is, is is 1-trillion times better than the joke that Ford put out there.

What Ford put out there today would have not received a passing grade in a high school project. It is grossly incompetent, and anyone involved with it should be terminated with prejudice. It's riddled with errors.