Rob Ford's Transit plan

[W. K. Lis]

I understand that Environmental Assessments had to be done for each of the current Transit City projects, as well as the Queens Quay project east of Bay Street, which includes the streetcar right-of-way.

Wouldn’t an Environmental Assessment have to be done to remove streetcars from the streets of Toronto? For each route or road?

Wouldn’t Rob Ford have to prove to the Environment Ministry that removing streetcars and replacing them with buses are good for the environment? And which version of EA would have to be done?

 

[nfitz]

I understand that Environmental Assessments had to be done for each of the current Transit City projects, as well as the Queens Quay project east of Bay Street, which includes the streetcar right-of-way.

Other than the SRT conversion ... which will start soon.

Wouldn’t an Environmental Assessment have to be done to remove streetcars from the streets of Toronto? For each route or road?

For a permanent removal; yes he would. I wrote to MOE when there was discussion of stopping operation on the Shepherd subway to save money, a few years ago; and they wrote back and said that while no EA was necessary to mothball the facilities, for later re-use; if there was a permanent removal of the facilities, they would have to do an EA.

Wouldn’t Rob Ford have to prove to the Environment Ministry that removing streetcars and replacing them with buses are good for the environment? And which version of EA would have to be done?

I'd assume that it would be a class EA, however when the final class EA report is submitted to the MOE, the minisiter has the discretion to do a bump up, and require that a fulll individual EA be performed.

Good question; it's a shame that the media in this city can't figure out such issues ... perhaps someone should write a press release with their story

 

[gweed123]

I'd think that if he pushes the province too much, they'll simply transfer the subways, or even the entire TTC to Metrolinx. And take the cost to run them out their transfer payments to the city. A Rob Ford city council might be exactly the opportunity Metrolinx is looking for.

Interesting conclusion. An orphaned child who is starving is a lot easier for someone to adopt than a kid who has parents and who is being fed.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Both Metrolinx and the Province have thrown some cold water on Ford's plan already, though they're being careful not to get too politically involved: http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/09/09/15294461.html

 

[ssiguy2]

Different contractors for many different portions is very common. Remember even one station is at least $100 million........................this day and age they will have many diffent companies trying to get a piece of that juicy pie. It can be coordinated very easily. Using just one engineering company. All the stations could be under construction at the same time.
Also I totally disagree with turning the streetcars into buses but I really don't think he plans on riping them up. I think it is far more likely that he will probably just not renew the streetcar lines that need to have their track replaced so let's drop this mania that job one will be to rip up the streetcar tracks.
The idea of local and express/semi-express routes on the same road is an excellent one.
This is what Vancouver did with it's B-Line bus routes where the buses came along for local users but fast POP articulates came by every 6 minutes for longer travel with stops only at very major intersections which worked out to about one per 1.5 km.
Guess what?.................ridership grew on the line by 30% in just three years on what was already the busiest route in the city.

 

[ssiguy2]

You write like you're on heavy psychiatric medication.

I didn't realize that putting the transit patrons wants over City Hall's was heresy. Small wonder people feel alienated from City Hall and infuriated with the TTC.

 

[nfitz]

I didn't realize that putting the transit patrons wants over City Hall's was heresy. Small wonder people feel alienated from City Hall and infuriated with the TTC.

I think it was a reference to your grammar, and puncation .................................................................................................................. rather than the content.

 

[Tulse]

Different contractors for many different portions is very common. Remember even one station is at least $100 million........................this day and age they will have many diffent companies trying to get a piece of that juicy pie. It can be coordinated very easily. Using just one engineering company. All the stations could be under construction at the same time.

But you think this isn't possible because of some vague "union rules"? Do you have any concrete citation for that?

Also I totally disagree with turning the streetcars into buses but I really don't think he plans on riping them up. I think it is far more likely that he will probably just not renew the streetcar lines that need to have their track replaced so let's drop this mania that job one will be to rip up the streetcar tracks.

How is that any different than ripping them up? He'll leave broken tracks laying in the street?

 

[Tulse]

I didn't realize that putting the transit patrons wants over City Hall's was heresy.

OK, I will ask for a second time: What is your specific concrete evidence that transit patrons don't want Transit City, or would prefer Ford's plan?

 

[Calrissian]

From that article http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron.../15294461.html (admittedly I never read the Sun, so thanks for sharing GraphicMatt): "Wynne said she is ready to have a conversation with any new mayor about priorities for public transit planning after Transit City."

Smartest words regarding transit plans I've read since this mayoral race began (minus Pantalones' endorsement of current TC plans)

The Candidates should leave this alone, and look to add on any of their own plans to enhance this after we get these enhancements in place.

 

[nfitz]

Agreed. We run the danger of Ottawa disease. Spending years putting together a plan, which falls apart when the next mayor/premier comes to power, and wants to start from scratch.

It shouldn't suprise anyone that there has been little long-term transit expansion in Toronto since Bill Davis left office in 1985. Davis was in power for 14 years, following the 10 years of Robarts, and the 12 years of Frost. After that the longest service premier is McGuinty, who hasn't even been there 7 years yet. 1985 saw the end of the continuous expansion of rapid transit in Toronto which started under Frost in the late 1950s. Network 2011 was released shortly after Davis left office, and never gained momentum during the short Miller, Peterson, and Rae governments ... with Mike Harris cancelling the little that had been started in 1995. Miller cancelled the GO ALRT project not long after coming to power in 1985. Had the Davis government continued another 10-15 years, we'd already have a Sheppard line, a Spadina extension, a DRL, and Eglinton West subway to the airport, an Etobiocke RT, and electrified up-to-every 2-minute GO ALRT service from Hamilton to Oshawa, through downtown and also connecting Mississauga City Centre, North York Centre, Pearson Airport, and Scarborough Town Centre.

Cancelling projects that are this far advanced ... not to save money, but just to spend it differently, is asinine.

Well perhaps not the ideal solution ... we would have had it.

 

[Calrissian]

Agreed. We run the danger of Ottawa disease. Spending years putting together a plan, which falls apart when the next mayor/premier comes to power, and wants to start from scratch.

It shouldn't suprise anyone that there has been little long-term transit expansion in Toronto since Bill Davis left office in 1985. Davis was in power for 14 years, following the 10 years of Robarts, and the 12 years of Frost. After that the longest service premier is McGuinty, who hasn't even been there 7 years yet. 1985 saw the end of the continuous expansion of rapid transit in Toronto which started under Frost in the late 1950s. Network 2011 was released shortly after Davis left office, and never gained momentum during the short Miller, Peterson, and Rae governments ... with Mike Harris cancelling the little that had been started in 1995. Miller cancelled the GO ALRT project not long after coming to power in 1985. Had the Davis government continued another 10-15 years, we'd already have a Sheppard line, a Spadina extension, a DRL, and Eglinton West subway to the airport, an Etobiocke RT, and electrified up-to-every 2-minute GO ALRT service from Hamilton to Oshawa, through downtown and also connecting Mississauga City Centre, North York Centre, Pearson Airport, and Scarborough Town Centre.

Cancelling projects that are this far advanced ... not to save money, but just to spend it differently, is asinine.

Well perhaps not the ideal solution ... we would have had it.

And that should be everyone's biggest concern right now, because, that is exactly the same pattern about to repeat itself.. which kind of means Miller (David) should've tried for re-election, just to see his plans get completed.

 

[GenerationW]

which kind of means Miller (David) should've tried for re-election, just to see his plans get completed.

That's exactly the point. With the two main proponents of TC (Miller & Giambrone) not running, and with the only mayoral candidate who fully supports it struggling to hit 10% in the polls, TC is either dying or dead.

Does RF get endorsements from anyone in GTA other than Nunziata and "right-wing" voters?

He probably doesn't care, and since it looks like we're about to get a large turnover in council, it probably doesn't matter.

 

[Calrissian]

It didn't sound like the others were as hell bent on stopping TC, and re-disbursing its approved funding the way Ford is, but more ready to adapt their own plans integrated in it (aside from Sarah T's subway expansion plan, but doubt she'd still want to stop the current underway projects once in office).. so I wouldn't agree with the 'TC is almost dying/dead', not with the provincial backing... Ford, would be the only one who might actually try to go through with it (and fail - but accomplish stalling it - the ignorant eff).

 

[nfitz]

TC is either dying or dead.

Not sure where you get that. Sheppard East is pretty much unstopbale given the construction, and complex federal/provincial funding agreement. Eglinton is pretty committed, and is included in Smitherman's plan. The SRT conversion/upgrade has to happen one way or another, no matter who is elected. Jane and Lakeshore West were likely dead-on-arrival. Don Mills has been under study since Lastman was mayor ... it's inevitable ... though perhaps will be subway south of Eglinton as it seems that demand exceeds LRT. Finch-West is at risk ... and Scarborough-Malvern.

Eglinton is certainly the heart of it ... and I can't believe we'll go from having a fully-funded 20-km transit route with 12-km of subway tunnel to nothing.