Rob Ford's Transit plan

[ssiguy2]

At least Ford's plan will actually get Toronto moving again unlike Smitherman's. Remember Ford's plan is 5 years not 10. All Smitherman will have constructed is a billion $ streetcar that will go no faster than POP bus. A simple bus only lane down Sheppard will do the exact same thing as a streetcar but cost a fraction of the price and could be built in no time. That just isn't sexy enough for Miller.
TC is touted as a rapid transit system serving all areas of Toronto. Both are a complete lie.
The original city of Toronto is completely neglected. Then we have the "rapid" part of the equation. None of the lines with the possible exception of Eglinton could be even remotely considered rapid.
Here's a challenge to all the TC supporters.............. provide me just one example on the whole planet where a streetcar that stops every 2 to 3 blocks, potentially all lights, and transfers needed to get on the same technology while heading in the same direction requires a station transfer and is still considered rapid transit. Just one example will do.
The thing that REALLY pisses me off about TC is that it could work and work well. The problem isn't the technology but rather how it's being executed. They couldn't screw this system up more if they tried.
Only the holy maker knows why the TTC could possibly present a plan where you are heading in one direction but then told to get off to go downstairs and wait for a new train using the same technology to carry you in the same direction. It's like having a subway station with two entrances and stopping, making people get off at one entrance , walk the half block to the other entrance to get back on the same subway train. I have tried to figure out the logic of this most bizzare concept and there simply isn't one.
What moron would build a line down Sheppard and not transfer the tunnel to LRT and not connect it to STC.
How in god's name could anyone even have the nerve to call a system that stops every 2 to 3 blocks and potentially all light as "rapid" transit? It could be real rapid transit if it stopped every 1 to 1.5 km and where it wasn't stopping it could use over/underpasses to avoid any lights except at ones which will have an at grade station. It would also be a hell of a lot easier on businesses and traffic as the under/over passes could be built with U-turns.
TC could have been a fast, affordable, seamless transit system but instead became a slow moving streetcar system with 2 to 3 times as many stops as needed and a disjointed mess with endless transfers.
When first announced I was excited for Toronto but with this horrid execution of a potentially great system would make me vote for anyone who cancels the entire system including the small part of Sheppard underway.

 

[mgl]

At least Ford's plan will actually get Toronto moving again unlike Smitherman's. Remember Ford's plan is 5 years not 10. All Smitherman will have constructed is a billion $ streetcar that will go no faster than POP bus.

Stop drinking the Ford kool aid. Just because Ford says he can build subways faster than the TTC does now and for less money than the TTC does now doesn't mean he can. His plans will need to go through the same Ontario-mandated EA phases as all projects and that will take a year or two. The routing of the SRT replacement would have to change, as others have expertly explained, and real costs will be much higher than his fantasy numbers.

I agree that we should and could build transit systems faster and for less money than we do now, but only because we over build the systems (compare Sheppard's gargantuan and empty stations to YUS or BD which would be more than adequate), but transit is not cheap and unless you're willing to watch workers die, it's not as fast as it was in the 'good old days'.

Ford's plans are fantasies. Don't believe the hype.

I don't think Smitherman has the best plan either, but it's a measured and rational approach.

 

[Swarley]

TC is touted as a rapid transit system serving all areas of Toronto. Both are a complete lie.
The original city of Toronto is completely neglected.

Whereas Ford would cancel EVERYTHING outside of Scarborough and North York. He'd actually make it WORSE by removing streetcars downtown. Do you even look at what you write before you post?

As for the rest of your comments, yes, subways are faster than streetcars/LRT. Perhaps you have the $300M / km lying around?

 

[Calrissian]

The rest of Rob Ford's plan might be trash, but the subway network for Scarborough that he's proposing is the one thing he's has gotten right. This post of yours is just asinine.

Ya, right, a sheppard and SRT subway in 5 years? good call. very realistic. I think its pretty clear what is asinine. Geez, drop 'scraborough' + 'subway' in the same breath and you start masturbating all over it.

 

[Chuck]

Sarah Thomson's plan is better: put surface transit (including streetcars) in its place as a truly local mode of transit through the construction of a few well placed subway lines. In the greater downtown area, subway stations should be well enough distributed that people could avoid using surface transit (including streetcars) altogether if they opt to do so. At the same time though, don't just replace streetcars with an equal capacity of buses because among other things, that would do nothing to solve the bigger issue of not enough heavy rail transit in our mature, dense downtown area.

 

[Dan416]

Ya, right, a sheppard and SRT subway in 5 years? good call. very realistic. I think its pretty clear what is asinine. Geez, drop 'scraborough' + 'subway' in the same breath and you start masturbating all over it.

Who's talking about time frame? I'm merely talking about the plan, which is to expand Sheppard from Downsview to STC, and the Danforth line by two stops to STC. I'm sure the Danforth line could be finished in 5 years. All of Sheppard probably not. The point is, that's the one part of his plan that MAKES SENSE and I would fully support. IIRC Smitherman proposes extending Danforth to STC as well, as does Thomson.

In terms of using the SRT alignment, we all know that's impossible and the best bet would be to keep the SRT in operation while the subway is built on a completely different alignment.

 

[Calrissian]

The point is, that's the one part of his plan that MAKES SENSE and I would fully support. IIRC Smitherman proposes extending Danforth to STC as well, as does Thomson.

But enough to vote for Ford? If he got his way (according to his plans at face value) he really would take this city back to 70's era thinking and planning - he would be such an embarrassment for this city, that any hope for real international status would go out the window.

The thought is terrifying. Fortunately, I have enough faith in the collective sensibility of our citizens that this wouldn't happen... but, if the majority were to vote him in, then this city, and its citizens, deserve everything thats coming to them.

He's ignorant, he's stubborn, and he's plain dumb.. a perfect menace to everything.

 

[Dan416]

But enough to vote for Ford? If he got his way (according to his plans at face value) he really would take this city back to 70's era thinking and planning - he would be such an embarrassment for this city, that any hope for real international status would go out the window.

The thought is terrifying. Fortunately, I have enough faith in the collective sensibility of our citizens that this wouldn't happen... but, if the majority were to vote him in, then this city, and its citizens, deserve everything thats coming to them.

He's ignorant, he's stubborn, and he's plain dumb.. a perfect menace to everything.

I never said I'd vote for him, even if I could. I would vote for Thomson or Smitherman.

I dislike Ford immensely, but the knee-jerk reaction to anything he proposes is rather ridiculous. Personally I'd love to see the looks on all your faces if Ford got elected, cancelled your beloved Transit City, and then went on to rip up all the streetcar routes in the city. Which I would like for the cancelling the SELRT and SRT/LRT, but it would be a little like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I see no need to get rid of the legacy streetcar network, nor do I believe Eglinton should be cancelled out right.

 

[nfitz]

The rest of Rob Ford's plan might be trash, but the subway network for Scarborough that he's proposing is the one thing he's has gotten right. This post of yours is just asinine.

That seems rather rude. He proposed a subway network for Toronto, that puts all the subways in one part of town. How can that be right? I suppose it might be right if you live in Scarborough ... but calling someone asinine, because they think that just building subways in Scarborough is not right.

 

[nfitz]

I dislike Ford immensely, but the knee-jerk reaction to anything he proposes is rather ridiculous.

He can't help it that almost everything he proposes is ridiculous.

I must say though, that I really do like some of his ideas; such as taking the $800 million for VIVA and spending it in Toronto. And his bridges to Toronto Islands. Credit where credit is due.

Doesn't mean I'm going to vote for the wife-beating alcoholic bigot though.

 

[Calrissian]

I never said I'd vote for him, even if I could. I would vote for Thomson or Smitherman.

I dislike Ford immensely, but the knee-jerk reaction to anything he proposes is rather ridiculous. Personally I'd love to see the looks on all your faces if Ford got elected, cancelled your beloved Transit City, and then went on to rip up all the streetcar routes in the city. Which I would like for the cancelling the SELRT and SRT/LRT, but it would be a little like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I see no need to get rid of the legacy streetcar network, nor do I believe Eglinton should be cancelled out right.

Well, as unlikely as it ever happening (and your living proof of the sensibility I was referring to - you like one thing he's proposing, but know he's an outright sloppy boob), if it did, I think as long as the liberals stay in power (and they will most likely continue to be even over the next election) they will force the approved and funded Metrolinx endorsed projects ahead, no matter the mayor. And that's really what this short sighted political culture needs. For our own good.

 

[SlickFranky]

Only the holy maker knows why the TTC could possibly present a plan where you are heading in one direction but then told to get off to go downstairs and wait for a new train using the same technology to carry you in the same direction. It's like having a subway station with two entrances and stopping, making people get off at one entrance , walk the half block to the other entrance to get back on the same subway train. I have tried to figure out the logic of this most bizzare concept and there simply isn't one.

Just thought I'd point out that this is how every subway terminus works. If you need to go beyond that point you switch to another mode and continue your journey. Every morning I get off at Finch station, walk over to the bus bays and transfer to another vehicle to continue my journey north..............in the same direction as the subway!!!!.............omg!!!!

The current transfer at Don Mills is to bus. The planned transfer is to LRT. So what? At some point the subway has to end, but people still often need to continue traveling in that same direction. In this case they've decided the demand past that point doesn't justify extending the subway, but is outgrowing bus service, hence the LRT.

That said, I happen to think this line is kind of dumb too, but for very different reasons. My issues are more with the priority it's being given.

 

[rbt]

I dislike Ford immensely, but the knee-jerk reaction to anything he proposes is rather ridiculous. Personally I'd love to see the looks on all your faces if Ford got elected, cancelled your beloved Transit City, and then went on to rip up all the streetcar routes in the city. Which I would like for the cancelling the SELRT and SRT/LRT, but it would be a little like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I see no need to get rid of the legacy streetcar network, nor do I believe Eglinton should be cancelled out right.

If this came to pass I would sell my Toronto real-estate immediately (simply due to expected drop in property values and livability) and likely move to NY or London for at least a decade until transit in Toronto is fixed.

I'm in Toronto because I like it, not because of a tie to employment.

 

[SP!RE]

If he was really going to actually use his noggin and think creatively, since he is worried about cars stuck behind streetcars, the logical solution would not be buses but to have streetcars not stop at every single street. Like how the Queen car stops at Yonge AND Victoria... sort of ridiculous in instances like that. Not only would it speed up the system but it would mean more opportunities for cars to pass the streetcars.

I'm not super "pro-car"... but I'm saying, this might be a better solution to make everyone happier.

But, then again, Rob Ford is a dumbass. So... let's remove streetcars because some people are impatient in their cars. Yep, that's a good idea. *rolls eyes*

 

[rbt]

I think as long as the liberals stay in power (and they will most likely continue to be even over the next election)

As much as I would like to see this occur I'm not certain that it will happen. Budget spending is going to be a huge issue in the next election and Ontarians are scared of a little government debt: no issues with personal debt, just government debt.

I find this fascinating since many of the things we cut are ones with solid and large returns on investment (transit, education, etc.).

Business isn't going to run away on a 1% taxation change (GTA Sales tax) but they will run away if commute times double over the next 20 years due to the continued spread of traffic congestion and lack of government investment in infrastructure (highway 401 equivalents; much easier to implement in track capacity) to fix that issue.