Rob Ford's Toronto

[VoicesCarry]

We're debating with the same individual that AoD has banned multiple times before. It won't be long now...

 

[dforthandbview]

A little more info about the threatening message left for Ford. Apparently a woman called to notify him that there's someone that wants to harm him sometime this month. "I'm sorry they are trying to do this to you".
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/08/creepy-threat-against-rob-ford-and-family-taken-seriously

 

[Tee]

Historically, hand holding stupid bigots hasn't achieved much. Making fun of them, yelling at them and even physically fighting them when forced to on the other hand has gotten results. If I alienate someone who is made uncomfortable by the thought of LGBT people or a rainbow flag, or someone who lives sealed in such a little bubble that they literally don't understand why it was raised in the first place, then so much the better. People like that should feel alienated; so alienated that they are too embarrased to do anything but keep their shitty, ignorant and poorly thought out opinions to themselves. They don't have arguments, they don't have a legitimate position, just an uncomfortable feeling in their pants or the back of their minds when someone different walks by, and unfortunately they're immature enough to think that counts for something.

What ThinkRicky said ...when someone like Ford hides behind this 'patriotism' for the flag thing, he's really trying to limit anything related to the LGTG community. That kind of attitude, especially from a public figure, in a position of authority, is a very dangerous thing.

 

[Dundat Square]

Historically, hand holding stupid bigots hasn't achieved much. Making fun of them, yelling at them and even physically fighting them when forced to on the other hand has gotten results. If I alienate someone who is made uncomfortable by the thought of LGBT people or a rainbow flag, or someone who lives sealed in such a little bubble that they literally don't understand why it was raised in the first place, then so much the better. People like that should feel alienated; so alienated that they are too embarrased to do anything but keep their shitty, ignorant and poorly thought out opinions to themselves. They don't have arguments, they don't have a legitimate position, just an uncomfortable feeling in their pants or the back of their minds when someone different walks by, and unfortunately they're immature enough to think that counts for something.

Historically, hand holding stupid bigots hasn't achieved much. Making fun of them, yelling at them and even physically fighting them when forced to on the other hand has gotten results. If I alienate someone who is made uncomfortable by the thought of LGBT people or a rainbow flag, or someone who lives sealed in such a little bubble that they literally don't understand why it was raised in the first place, then so much the better. People like that should feel alienated; so alienated that they are too embarrased to do anything but keep their shitty, ignorant and poorly thought out opinions to themselves. They don't have arguments, they don't have a legitimate position, just an uncomfortable feeling in their pants or the back of their minds when someone different walks by, and unfortunately they're immature enough to think that counts for something.

"Making fun of them, yelling at them and even physically fighting them when forced to on the other hand has gotten results." How does making fun of someone make you any better than them? That's childish. How does alienation work to your benefit? You're just losing the battle in doing so. If you want to persuade people to think like you, then I suggest not being so offensive. You'll never get everyone on board re LGBT issues and you have to accept that or just ignore it. Why should anyone feel alienated just because they don't affirm your sexuality? Who cares? The only opinions that should matter to anyone are those of their family and friends. So what if Rex in Scarborough doesn't like Pride or finds gay sex yucky? Those that you don't love shouldn't negatively affect your self esteem. I don't understand why many gay people need validation from strangers? How do you know that your opposition doesn't have arguments? You're generalizing. Why are you saying that gay people are different? In what way are you different than a straight person; aside from your sexual preference? You're a human being like anyone else. You don't sound like a very confident person. How can you call others "immature" when you advocate name calling and yelling as a means to get your point across?

 

[Johnny Au]

You didn't answer the question. Why do Canadian liberals (many UTers included) love Obama if he's more conservative than you?

Well, the reason why Canadian liberals love Obama is that his Obamacare is the first step in the United States having universal health care, him being partly African American, his charm in public speaking, his progressive stance on social issues, and the fact that he is not as conservative as Romney.

Here is what the Political Compass gets to say about Obama:

The Democratic incumbent has surrounded himself with conservative advisors and key figures — many from previous administrations, and an unprecedented number from the Trilateral Commission. He also appointed a former Monsanto executive as Senior Advisor to the FDA. He has extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, presided over a spiralling rich-poor gap and sacrificed further American jobs with recent free trade deals. Trade union rights have also eroded under his watch. He has expanded Bush defence spending, droned civilians, failed to close Guantanamo, supported the NDAA which effectively legalises martial law, allowed drilling and adopted a soft-touch position towards the banks that is to the right of European Conservative leaders. Taking office during the financial meltdown, Obama appointed its principle architects to top economic positions. We list these because many of Obama's detractors absurdly portray him as either a radical liberal or a socialist, while his apologists, equally absurdly, continue to view him as a well-intentioned progressive, tragically thwarted by overwhelming pressures. 2008's yes-we-can chanters, dazzled by pigment rather than policy detail, forgot to ask can what? Between 1998 and the last election, Obama amassed $37.6million from the financial services industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. While 2008 presidential candidate Obama appeared to champion universal health care, his first choice for Secretary of Health was a man who had spent years lobbying on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry against that very concept. Hey! You don't promise a successful pub, and then appoint the Salvation Army to run it. This time around, the honey-tongued President makes populist references to economic justice, while simultaneously appointing as his new Chief of Staff a former Citigroup executive concerned with hedge funds that bet on the housing market to collapse. Obama poses something of a challenge to The Political Compass, because he's a man of so few fixed principles.

Since FDR, the mainstream American "Left" has been much more concerned with the social rather than the economic scale. Identity politics; issues like peace, immigration, homosexual and women's rights, prayers in school have assumed far greater importance than matters like pensions and minimum wages that preoccupy their counterparts in other democracies.

 

[EagleEye]

A little more info about the threatening message left for Ford. Apparently a woman called to notify him that there's someone that wants to harm him sometime this month. "I'm sorry they are trying to do this to you".
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/08/creepy-threat-against-rob-ford-and-family-taken-seriously

This seems very odd to me. First of all, the creepy call took place before the flag flap yet it took the cops till later in the afternoon to show up. Do they not think of it as a serious threat? Are they just sick of being called by Ford all the time? Or are they just paying him back for the comments about Blair? After "Dave from Scarborough", "Dave from Etobicoke" etc. called into the radio show so many times, do they just assume it's another crank call? Do they think Ford is getting someone to call and "threaten" him to take the heat off him from the cops? Make him the victim?

 

[Dundat Square]

hey Mr. Single Digit Posts--go away. we can all see where you're going with your trollish BS. you know why? because we have been dealing with trolls on this thread forever. you're like number 800--and you all say the same stupid things. just spare yourself the energy and piss off back to the comments section of boneheads.com or wherever you normally spit up your stupid remarks.

Why are you incapable of an intelligent discussion? Attack my arguments, not me. Don't be a bully. If you're unable to have a civil conversation, then just ignore me.

 

[Dundat Square]

Different types of categorisations. Labels that do not denote intentionality but suggest insensitive behaviour are fine by me, and in practice are pretty effective so long as they are aimed at political leaders and not at the general population.

Insensitive to whom? What about the sensitivities of your opponents?

 

[Kat_YYZ]

You are trolin' in the wrong place.

sadly, s/he is not in the wrong place. because the purpose of trolling is to get responses, not necessarily to win the argument. now there will be 10 pages of argument with this person. which those of us who can manage to scroll by such posts without engaging -- and who are here looking for Ford news -- have to sift through.

Like the Renata/coat thing; seriously, how many posts on that? all one had to do was read the article, it's not her.

 

[dforthandbview]

Kat_YYZ, are you saying there should be a separate thread dedicated to Renata's coat?

 

[inyyz]

Why are you incapable of an intelligent discussion? Attack my arguments, not me. Don't be a bully. If you're unable to have a civil conversation, then just ignore me.

Key word is "intelligent". Those of us here (like thedeepend) are used to seeing the odd person who feels the need to perpetuate myth. It would not be an intelligent discussion. Any acknowledgement of your ignorance would put the sole focus on you and would result in endless posts about an argument that has nothing to do with Rob Ford. Ignore, indeed.

Oops, Kat_YYZ. Hit send before I saw your post. Snap-ish

 

[Kat_YYZ]

Kat_YYZ, are you saying there should be a separate thread dedicated to Renata's coat?

couldn't hurt

This seems very odd to me. First of all, the creepy call took place before the flag flap yet it took the cops till later in the afternoon to show up. Do they not think of it as a serious threat? Are they just sick of being called by Ford all the time? Or are they just paying him back for the comments about Blair? After "Dave from Scarborough", "Dave from Etobicoke" etc. called into the radio show so many times, do they just assume it's another crank call? Do they think Ford is getting someone to call and "threaten" him to take the heat off him from the cops? Make him the victim?

well it also says police from his home division (22) aren't handling this. As they didn't handle any of the PB2 surveillance. Maybe the delay was in getting the specific "Rob Ford squad" cops on the job.

 

[wheeler98]

"Making fun of them, yelling at them and even physically fighting them when forced to on the other hand has gotten results." How does making fun of someone make you any better than them? That's childish. How does alienation work to your benefit? You're just losing the battle in doing so. If you want to persuade people to think like you, then I suggest not being so offensive. You'll never get everyone on board re LGBT issues and you have to accept that or just ignore it. Why should anyone feel alienated just because they don't affirm your sexuality? Who cares? The only opinions that should matter to anyone are those of their family and friends. So what if Rex in Scarborough doesn't like Pride or finds gay sex yucky? Those that you don't love shouldn't negatively affect your self esteem. I don't understand why many gay people need validation from strangers? How do you know that your opposition doesn't have arguments? You're generalizing. Why are you saying that gay people are different? In what way are you different than a straight person; aside from your sexual preference? You're a human being like anyone else. You don't sound like a very confident person. How can you call others "immature" when you advocate name calling and yelling as a means to get your point across?

Why are you getting so upset? The entire community has been persecuted for generations and you think that the pushback of this generation of out of the closet LGBT is just as bad? You've thought yourself into a false equivalency.

Now then....the Mayor of Toronto represents all of Toronto....not just those who vote for him. His strategy is to divide and conquer only.

 

[Dundat Square]

Well, the reason why Canadian liberals love Obama is that his Obamacare is the first step in the United States having universal health care, him being partly African American, his charm in public speaking, his progressive stance on social issues, and the fact that he is not as conservative as Romney.

Here is what the Political Compass gets to say about Obama:

I highly doubt Obamacare even registered with populist liberals. They just loved the novelty of having a partly black president. What does his being partly African American have to do with his ability to govern? That's a shallow reason to like a politician. Obama didn't even face the same racial struggle in the 60s that people like Condoleezza Rice, Herman Cain, or Colin Powell did. He was raised by his white mother in Hawaii. It's amusing that Obama was exploited for his "blackness". Most people didn't know his history and just saw his skin colour and thought, 'I can relate to him.' I wouldn't call Obama progressive on social issues. He originally opposed gay marriage, then all of a sudden he had a change of heart? He's not a deep man. He'll just do whatever makes him popular.

 

[Dundat Square]

Why are you getting so upset? The entire community has been persecuted for generations and you think that the pushback of this generation of out of the closet LGBT is just as bad? You've thought yourself into a false equivalency.

Now then....the Mayor of Toronto represents all of Toronto....not just those who vote for him. His strategy is to divide and conquer only.

I'm not upset. Yes, you were persecuted for generations -- and still are in certain parts of the world. In what way are you persecuted in Canada by the government? What rights are you being denied? Who cares what Rob Ford's feelings are on gay people? What power does he have to worsen your lives? Is your day to day life any different because Rob Ford doesn't support Pride?