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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Yaitsme said:
Fascinating day today.
Hey lawye folks. If something happens in the foyer during recess is that still part of the ban?
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If it's regarding evidence provided in court then it would still be covered. If it's not regarding evidence then there's no real issue, no?
 
animatronic said:
If it's regarding evidence provided in court then it would still be covered. If it's not regarding evidence then there's no real issue, no?
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Just a witness decided to yell out at the defendant about being a tough guy lol. And then she and her brother mumbled all kinds of stuff - it was good tv
 
Kat_YYZ said:
Ford and his allies would be wrong to screech, so why should we do it? It's not about him getting a pass, it's about criticizing someone for something, then doing that same thing yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right. Then you say "we're only doing it because he did it" then he says "I'm only doing it because they did it to me" and so it never ends. Be the bigger person and stop the cycle. If he wasn't called to appear at Lisi's trial, and if he's not missing particularly important council business, then I don't see what the fuss is (for now; if something major happens and he becomes a fugitive in Jamaica, that's different... ;) )
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But there is such a thing as fighting fire with fire and there are certain situations and/or individuals in which doing so is not merely justified, it's really the only appropriate response. During Ford's 4 yr. rampage as Mayor, it was frustrating to the point of tearing one's own hair out to watch every single person in any kind of position of power deliberately sit on their hands and let him do whatever the hell he damn well pleased, particularly when the given reasons were generally along the lines of, "Oh, we're too noble, too pure, too saintly and too high-minded to actually respond in kind. He'll never be adequately punished (or even punished at all) or answer for his behavior in any real way, but if we only wait 4 years (or maybe 8 or more), then possiblyhe'll be voted out of office! That'll show him, LOL!"

Ford is one of those demagogues who's determined to destroy government by showing it doesn't work, and in his case, he actually got elected in order to sabotage the very institution he was supposed to be serving. And every single "moderate," "respectable" middle-of-the-road or self-styled progressive chickenshit in City Hall and the local media who adopted appeasement as the official method of dealing with Ford aided him in that endeavor. What most of them really meant when they said they were taking the so-called high road was that they didn't have the stomach for a protracted political fight with vicious brutes like the Ford brothers. And you know, I'm not even entirely unsympathetic to that mindset; I'm far from being the most physically courageous person you'll meet, so when, for example, Olivia Chow physically cringed away from Rob Ford in obvious fear at one of their debates, I can't very well blame the woman. Except to say that if she couldn't stand up to the fucking pig, she had no business entering that contest to begin with.

You don't let bullies get away with the kind of shit Ford pulled. He wins either way, even if he's eventually turfed out of office. It looks bad to the majority of people who aren't political and are inclined to recognize what sort of a creature we have in Ford, but see every lever of legitimate opposition utterly fail in every conceivable way when it comes to opposing him. It doesn't make us "the bigger person" to allow Ford to skate away, scott free, after letting him rampage unopposed while in office. On the contrary, it makes us look incompetent, cowardly, self-serving, useless. Unserious. Particularly to the type of voters we need to kick the likes of Ford out on his fat ass come election day. It's a bad idea, especially if you try to cloak it with the mantle of high-mindedness. It doesn't look "high-minded" to ordinary, apolitical citizens when they see elected representatives knuckle under to an obvious, undisguised thug. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.
 
+100. At the core of it, I think everyone wanted to reap the reward but not take the risk of getting ones' hands dirty. The "you first" dynamic is maddening.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
+100. At the core of it, I think everyone wanted to reap the reward but not take the risk of getting ones' hands dirty. The "you first" dynamic is maddening.

AoD
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Another thing was that the Fords and their allies were quick to deflect and lash out at critics even in the most asinine, ridiculous ways: suggesting that if Rob was unfit to be mayor because of substance abuse, well, let's just run drug tests on ALL of council because maybe he's not the only one on drugs, hint hint.
 
John_Dee said:
But there is such a thing as fighting fire with fire ...
... It doesn't look "high-minded" to ordinary, apolitical citizens when they see elected representatives knuckle under to an obvious, undisguised thug. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.
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Wow JD, you've crystallized my thoughts eloquently.

I've always thought that, had any candidate - even one from the fringe - been able to find the balls to stand up to the Ford BS and aggressively call them out in public - actually say the words nobody would, they would have made huge gains. I was really surprised that nobody did. I think there are lots of people who feel this way and who would have thrown their support heavily to the one who addressed the herd of elephants in the room.
 
YPQ said:
Wow JD, you've crystallized my thoughts eloquently.

I've always thought that, had any candidate - even one from the fringe - been able to find the balls to stand up to the Ford BS and aggressively call them out in public - actually say the words nobody would, they would have made huge gains. I was really surprised that nobody did. I think there are lots of people who feel this way and who would have thrown their support heavily to the one who addressed the herd of elephants in the room.
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In the campaign at least, I think Ari took up that torch, and he did not make huge gains (although he did make some).
 
Ottawan said:
In the campaign at least, I think Ari took up that torch, and he did not make huge gains (although he did make some).
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gains in the minds of some, yes -- me included -- but hugely disappointing in the final results, in which he got approx 4000 votes

compare morgan baskin with 1000, and she ran hardly any campaign at all
 
Don Peat @reporterdonpeat
Mayor John Tory says he hasn't reached out to Doug Ford since the campaign ended, he says campaign got "too personal" #TOpoli
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Jonathan Goldsbie @goldsbie
Ryan Doyle asks Tory whether he's reached out to the other candidates to work with him: "Not so much Doug Ford, to be frank."
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Don Peat @reporterdonpeat
Mayor John Tory tells @newstalk1010 he did reach out to Olivia Chow after the campaign ended & they discussed some sort of role #TOpoli
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I don't blame Tory for not talking to Doug after the election was over.
 
John_Dee said:
But there is such a thing as fighting fire with fire and there are certain situations and/or individuals in which doing so is not merely justified, it's really the only appropriate response. During Ford's 4 yr. rampage as Mayor, it was frustrating to the point of tearing one's own hair out to watch every single person in any kind of position of power deliberately sit on their hands and let him do whatever the hell he damn well pleased, particularly when the given reasons were generally along the lines of, "Oh, we're too noble, too pure, too saintly and too high-minded to actually respond in kind. He'll never be adequately punished (or even punished at all) or answer for his behavior in any real way, but if we only wait 4 years (or maybe 8 or more), then possiblyhe'll be voted out of office! That'll show him, LOL!"

Ford is one of those demagogues who's determined to destroy government by showing it doesn't work, and in his case, he actually got elected in order to sabotage the very institution he was supposed to be serving. And every single "moderate," "respectable" middle-of-the-road or self-styled progressive chickenshit in City Hall and the local media who adopted appeasement as the official method of dealing with Ford aided him in that endeavor. What most of them really meant when they said they were taking the so-called high road was that they didn't have the stomach for a protracted political fight with vicious brutes like the Ford brothers. And you know, I'm not even entirely unsympathetic to that mindset; I'm far from being the most physically courageous person you'll meet, so when, for example, Olivia Chow physically cringed away from Rob Ford in obvious fear at one of their debates, I can't very well blame the woman. Except to say that if she couldn't stand up to the fucking pig, she had no business entering that contest to begin with.

You don't let bullies get away with the kind of shit Ford pulled. He wins either way, even if he's eventually turfed out of office. It looks bad to the majority of people who aren't political and are inclined to recognize what sort of a creature we have in Ford, but see every lever of legitimate opposition utterly fail in every conceivable way when it comes to opposing him. It doesn't make us "the bigger person" to allow Ford to skate away, scott free, after letting him rampage unopposed while in office. On the contrary, it makes us look incompetent, cowardly, self-serving, useless. Unserious. Particularly to the type of voters we need to kick the likes of Ford out on his fat ass come election day. It's a bad idea, especially if you try to cloak it with the mantle of high-mindedness. It doesn't look "high-minded" to ordinary, apolitical citizens when they see elected representatives knuckle under to an obvious, undisguised thug. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.
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Yes and thank you for this, so well expressed. The Fords allowed us to look like a city of fools and we let them.
 
YPQ said:
Wow JD, you've crystallized my thoughts eloquently.

I've always thought that, had any candidate - even one from the fringe - been able to find the balls to stand up to the Ford BS and aggressively call them out in public - actually say the words nobody would, they would have made huge gains. I was really surprised that nobody did. I think there are lots of people who feel this way and who would have thrown their support heavily to the one who addressed the herd of elephants in the room.
Click to expand...

Ari Goldkind did and nobody bit .
 
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