Rob Ford's Toronto

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's laughable - so you are basing the ability to conduct aquatic rescues on the availability of boats from a private enterprise? That's your emergency plan?

AoD

 

[adma]

It's time for a basic civics lesson Forgotten - http://www.toronto.ca/civic-engagement/learning-material/governance.htm#mayor

Unfortunately, and it helps explain the Ford Nation phenomenon, we're in an era where mass engagement to the notion of anything "civic" is going the way of cursive handwriting...

 

[canmark]

Is there an age requirement for Mayor of Toronto? Minnesota town has 4-year old mayor: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2..._mayor_is_a_4yearold_who_likes_ice_cream.html

 

[Tulse]

CowboyLogic, I do appreciate you considering the arguments about the Ford budgets. But:

Both Matt Elliot and John Tory have made the same claim (that Ford did release a budget smaller than the year), so, at the very least, I'm only parroting what those two Urban-Toronto-approved individuals said.

This is pretty weak sauce. It's far better to actually dig into the actual numbers. Turning to that:

That is significant. You're seeing the forest for the trees if you don't think any reduction is a huge achievement. Not only is a one-fifth of one percent reduction significant, but a 0.2% increase is significant.

Whether or not he posted a reduction, Ford dramatically slowed the rate of budget increases from the Miller years. Under Ford's tenure, there has been a 0.53% increase in the Gross Operating Budget, compared to a 11.59% increase under Miller's tenure.

I haven't run the numbers on the overall tenures of either person, so I'll have to trust you -- that said, I wouldn't be surprised. And I would by no means discount the differences between the administrations. I do think the issues are more complex than soundbites such as "released a budget smaller than last year" -- for example, Miller also tended to run large surpluses, and the full impact of overly-lean finances often aren't seen for a few years (just look at the mess that is now the TTC).

All that said, though, I do object when Ford makes a claim that isn't supported by the data, as I think that's hugely disingenuous. That was my primary point in countering the claimed reduction.

 

[Tulse]

I would direct the blame at John Tory! It was John Tory who killed off the amphibious "Hippo Bus"

OK, now it's clear you've just been pulling our leg. I had been fooled for a while, but clearly "Peepers" had finally been outed as an example of Poe's Law.

Well played, "Peepers" -- you really had me believing you were an unreflective knee-jerk Ford Nationista. Brilliant parody, my friend...just brilliant.

 

[inyyz]

 

[Tulse]

And, CowboyLogic, here's what happens when you cut budgets: City of Toronto deeper in debt under Mayor Rob Ford.

The city’s net long-term debt grew by about $800 million in Ford’s first two years of office, 2011 and 2012.
As of the end of 2012, it stood at $3.7 billion, compared with $2.9 billion at the end of 2010, former mayor David Miller’s last year in office.

Again, there are longer-term consequences of inadequately funding the city.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

To be fair, it would have happened regardless because of needed capital spending.

AoD

 

[freshcutgrass]

Perhaps not announcing to the world that his way of dealing with a power failure was to get into his SUV and turning on the air conditioning??

Yea...but that is just classic Ford in action....humiliate yourself with words or actions....without realizing it. Even when what he is doing/saying isn't necessarily a bad thing, he will find a way to project bad optics.

I don't think we should overplay the drama on this flooding issue, as it dilutes the truly devastatingly bad job he is doing on more important matters.

The man is clearly a complete moron. And I'm not using this an an insult, but in the traditional usage, as a measurement of his intelligence.

I'm sure the man's IQ isn't high, but his problem involves a mental disorder (probably NPD comorbid with something else).

And while you are correct that he clearly is a complete moron, what's shocking, is that to a large quantity of Torontonians, he clearly isn't.

 

[Tulse]

To be fair, it would have happened regardless because of needed capital spending.

I take your point, and it's a fair one, but the issue isn't so much the increase in spending, but the increase in debt, and lack of planning for it -- if you're going to do a lot of capital spending, you shouldn't reduce your revenue. You can't increase capital spending and cut taxes and not increase the debt.

(It also may be childish of me, but it seems like if we have a mayor who spouts misleading sound bites, turnabout is fair play, and "Rob Ford increased the debt" has the virtue of being technically correct.)

That said, given the size of the capital outlays, it would have been almost impossible to fund those directly through annual revenue without some sort of long-term debt financing, so your broader point is indeed well taken.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

That's what I meant, the rise was projected even in Miller's budget (and a good chunk of it is SOGR spending) and Ford really didn't stray from it (rhetoric notwithstanding).

Point in the relationship between revenue and debt is well taken. It would be profoundly unwise to reduce taxation unless you can demonstrate that such a reduction in the rate will lead to an increase in the amount of tax intake.

AoD

 

[RC8]

The funny thing about Fordistas is that they claim that the gross operating budget figure is relevant and laud it as an achievement, but the decrease you see in the graph is a result of a decrease in revenue. Had Ford's casino plan materialised, the gross operating budget would have increased significantly, and I doubt you'd hear them complaining then.

Funnier still is the notion that the city should be run like a private enterprise, and therefore it should take as little back as possible from the services it provides. In reality private enterprise works in the exact opposite way, providing the cheapest possible service for the highest possible cost.

 

[Electrify]

I don't know if I would blame Ford for the delayed GO train rescue, but it is definitely not getting the scrutiny it deserves. What if after 3 hours something gave and the train became consumed in water, drowning passengers to death? Not only would we have a horrible tragedy, but GO and EMS would be having to explain why after THREE HOURS there were no attempts at getting passengers off of the train! I understand that services were stretched thin, but I cannot fathom why it was nearly 4 hours until they arrived at the scene. There should be demands to an inquiry as to why it took so long for emergency services to arrive at the scene.

Of course if this were a TTC train, you can bet that this delayed rescue would be on the front page for the next several weeks. Let's just be thankful that everyone got off safe, and that GO doesn't operate single level trains anymore...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Electrify:

They probably made a judgement call - the train has taken on water and won't "float" or get dragged away, and the current might actually be a safety hazard for rescuers. If the passengers aren't in immediate danger, then waiting till it's safe for rescuers to do their job might not be such a bad idea.

AoD

 

[ShonTron]

What should he have been doing?

So far, you're the only person on here that I've seen bring up what you actually expect Ford to have done: direct and update emergency services and do media updates.

Wrong. Tulse, AoD and I expressed the same expectation.