Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[innsertnamehere]

That Tims has been a blow away success, I'm through that way almost every weekend haha. They built it 3 or 4 years ago and have already added a second order lane because its so busy. The McDonalds there is just as insane. I'm honestly scared for when the 404 opens as that already busy road will get even busier.

They did do some upgrading to ravenshoe road for the extension, but that's about it. They need to upload ravenshoe as part of 48 to connect to the 404 and then download the section south of that IMO.

 

[Markster]

Markster is correct, the 401 used to be three lanes under the 401 until about a decade ago. It can't get any wider than four lanes in each direction without rebuiding the whole interchange almost from scratch.

Yeah, you'd need to rebuild from scratch pretty much every overpass in this area:

Widening the 401 through here will cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[flyinggoats]

Unrelated, but do others agree that renaming the Mississauga stretch of the 403, the 410 would make more sense than having two different 403's (although technically, it's a 403/QEW combo through Oakville/Burlington)?

The 403 was originally planned to be a continuous route using the right-of-way that is now the Western portion of the 407. Renaming the 403 (through Mississauga) to 410 makes too much sense now.

 

[JasonParis]

Yes, I do recall that a portion of the 407 was originally reserved for the 403 extension. I think have what amounts to two 403's is just confusing and it should simply be renamed the 410 south of the 401 in Mississauga into Oakville. I can't imagine Mississauga would really care either what it is called.

 

[Mulder]

I am not an engineer or a road builder....I was simply using laymen's words to say that since there is no way to make the road wider to add lanes....you either have to:

a) build a bunch of lanes over top/above the current lanes
b) build them under the current lanes
c) live with what you have.

d) buy land

Widening the 401 through here will cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

Hence why there is never any appetite for major reconfiguration, anywhere.

 

[TOareaFan]

d) buy land

Since virtually all of that land has something on it.....it would be a very expensive and lengthy period of expropriation.

 

[Dan416]

I don't like the idea of renaming part of the 403 to 410. 410 parallels the old Highway 10 (now Hurontario St). The east-west portion of the 403 does not.

 

[pstogios]

I don't find the 403 naming confusing at all. If you have a driver's license you should have enough brain cells to figure this out.

If the name of 403 through Mississauga is to complicated, then you might as well kill the 403/QEW combo through Oakville for the same reason. Name that the QEW, and have the 403 start at the 407 junction in Burlington.

 

[gweed123]

I'm hoping (although not realistically) that the Province and the consortium that own the 407 ETR will work out some sort of a highway swap agreement, whereby a new stretch of the 407 can be built from the current 401-407 interchange up to Guelph, connecting with the free portion of an upgraded Highway 7 to Kitchener.

The section of the 407 that should have been the 403 can be untolled during off-peak hours and renamed 403 (thereby 'completing' the highway). The north-south stretch of highway that is currently the 407 and 403 can form it's own new highway for the time being (from the 401 to the QEW), but be integrated into the new GTA West highway when it's built. The 407 ETR can continue on to Guelph, which would bring in roughly the same amount of toll revenue as the Halton stretch of the 407 does today. Everybody wins, and the highway system becomes a heck of a lot less convoluted.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

I'm hoping (although not realistically) that the Province and the consortium that own the 407 ETR will work out some sort of a highway swap agreement, whereby a new stretch of the 407 can be built from the current 401-407 interchange up to Guelph, connecting with the free portion of an upgraded Highway 7 to Kitchener.

The section of the 407 that should have been the 403 can be untolled during off-peak hours and renamed 403 (thereby 'completing' the highway). The north-south stretch of highway that is currently the 407 and 403 can form it's own new highway for the time being (from the 401 to the QEW), but be integrated into the new GTA West highway when it's built. The 407 ETR can continue on to Guelph, which would bring in roughly the same amount of toll revenue as the Halton stretch of the 407 does today. Everybody wins, and the highway system becomes a heck of a lot less convoluted.

I'm hoping, although less realistically, that the province will one day be able to reclaim control and toll revenue of the 407 from the consortium. Oh yes. That would be the day.

 

[1overcosc]

The province can expropriate it. Given the value of the asset, though, that would cost a lot and could take 10-20 years to regain. Still, we should do it. As time marches on, that expropriation will get cheaper, though. As 2098 gets closer and the value of the lease drops, its corresponding expropriation price will also drop.

 

[Mulder]

Since virtually all of that land has something on it.....it would be a very expensive and lengthy period of expropriation.

It would likely cost less than your proposed elevated highway. Hence why I brought it up

 

[Transportfan]

I don't find the 403 naming confusing at all. If you have a driver's license you should have enough brain cells to figure this out.

Agree. There's no reason a 400-series freeway has to run perfectly parallel to the highway it bypassed for its entire length. Also, the Mississauga section of 403 no longer has any real relationship with the western section anymore.

 

[gweed123]

I'm hoping, although less realistically, that the province will one day be able to reclaim control and toll revenue of the 407 from the consortium. Oh yes. That would be the day.

I'd put that one in the "when we no longer have a deficit" file, hahaha. Cancelling a lease on a highway isn't exactly a good use of deficit spending.

 

[TOareaFan]

It would likely cost less than your proposed elevated highway. Hence why I brought it up

Let's be clear (before this gets extrapolated too far) I was not proposing an elevated highway. I was responding to someone asking why the collector/express system ends temporarily there and that person suggesting that it needs to be fixed. I was simply telling him that it does because there is no land for road widening and that the only options would be a very expensive tunnel or a very expensive elevated highway.

Not sure you are correct that expropriation of that property would be cheaper but I think it is moot because both are really expensive and neither is happening.