Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Steve X]

IMO the 402 and 403 should be signed as one continuous highway, with a concurrency with the 401 through London, Ingesoll, and Woodstock connecting them.

If it were up to me, the 402 would run from Sarnia to the Freeman Interchange in Burlington, and the Mississauga section of the 403 would be resigned as 410, terminating at the QEW in Oakville.

The point of a continuous number is to help in navigation. Signing like that just cause confusion, especially when the 402 and 403 both existed as short highways very far apart.

I think the 403 should end at freeman interchange. The Mississauga section could used a different number, maybe 408. The purpose of that highway is a east west highway within Mississauga. The 410 has a different purpose, a North south highway connecting the 401 to Brampton.

There’s no point of different highway carrying a single designation if it’s not meant for the majority of traffic to travel that way.

 

[kamira51]

The history of highways in Ontario are always an interesting subject due to how much of an impact they had and still have in Ontario’s development.

Highways are still a necessity much to the dismay of environmentalists.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The point of a continuous number is to help in navigation. Signing like that just cause confusion, especially when the 402 and 403 both existed as short highways very far apart.

I think the 403 should end at freeman interchange. The Mississauga section could used a different number, maybe 408. The purpose of that highway is a east west highway within Mississauga. The 410 has a different purpose, a North south highway connecting the 401 to Brampton.

There’s no point of different highway carrying a single designation if it’s not meant for the majority of traffic to travel that way.

the 403 designation in Mississauga is a leftover of the planned naming convention prior to the selling off of the 407. The 407 through Oakville and Burlington was originally planned to be designated as the 403 to remove the co-running of the highway with the QEW through Halton (which is overwhelmingly referred to as the QEW, not the 403 for those that use the highway). That was dropped when the 407ETR was sold off and the purchasing company was required to build the new highway as a part of the contract - with it getting integrated into the 407 instead.

 

[gweed123]

The point of a continuous number is to help in navigation. Signing like that just cause confusion, especially when the 402 and 403 both existed as short highways very far apart.

I think the 403 should end at freeman interchange. The Mississauga section could used a different number, maybe 408. The purpose of that highway is a east west highway within Mississauga. The 410 has a different purpose, a North south highway connecting the 401 to Brampton.

There’s no point of different highway carrying a single designation if it’s not meant for the majority of traffic to travel that way.

I would argue that it does help with navigation. There is quite a bit of traffic that uses the 403-401-402 combination to reach the border crossing at Sarnia. We agree on it ending at Freeman though.

As for the 410, I would argue that the 403-410 combination is a N-S highway with a small E-W segment through Mississauga. The only reason they're different designations is because the 410 was supposed to extend due south to the QEW and the 403 was supposed to extend west along the 407 alignment and east towards the 401-427 interchange. I'd say the likelihood of any of those things happening at this point is virtually nil. I say simplify things and have the 410 run from the QEW to its terminus at Highway 10 in northern Brampton.

^^^^ I disagree. If the original 402 design for the northern part of London occurred then I could see it as it would basically be a straight route.

I think if they one day decide to extend the 402 it would be to connect London & Niagara allowing cars and transports to completely avoid Hamilton and the QEW. It would actually be well used as it would help divert a lot of the transport traffic off the 401 between the 402 & 403. There are no bigger cities along the route but it is still fairly populace including many decent sized towns..............Delhi, Dunnville, Simcoe, Tilsonburg, and Alymer and the latter 2 are increasingly London suburban commuter communities.

If they decide to extend the 402 eastward it would likely only ever be extended to the 403-401 interchange anyway, in which case it would make even more sense to number them as one continuous highway.

The SW Ontario-Niagara connection would likely be accomplished via the Mid-Peninsula Highway, which would carry an entirely different designation.

 

[ssiguy2]

The MP Highway will do nothing to reduce the heavy traffic on the 401 between the 402 & 403 and especially the transport traffic. A 402 extension would help divert some of that traffic. The transport traffic thru greater London is extremely heavy on an already traffic plagued road. Seeing VIA has to effectively abandoned London on any improvements and the GO "service" is essentially useless, the province must invest in the roadways in the region.

Such a highway would also cater to the large number of commuters to London from West Elgin & Tilsonburg and provide a freeway thru an under served area of the province.

 

[gweed123]

The MP Highway will do nothing to reduce the heavy traffic on the 401 between the 402 & 403 and especially the transport traffic. A 402 extension would help divert some of that traffic. The transport traffic thru greater London is extremely heavy on an already traffic plagued road. Seeing VIA has to effectively abandoned London on any improvements and the GO "service" is essentially useless, the province must invest in the roadways in the region.

Such a highway would also cater to the large number of commuters to London from West Elgin & Tilsonburg and provide a freeway thru an under served area of the province.

But extending the 402 around the north side of London and connecting with the existing 403 just east of Woodstock would also relieve the section of the 401 that is overcrowded. That would be a significantly shorter (and arguably more beneficial route for both local and long-distance travel patterns) route than extending a highway south of London and more or less following the Highway 3 route to Fort Erie or Niagara Falls.

The Mid-Peninsula would connect to the 403 around Ancaster, providing a bypass of the QEW and the Linc/Red Hill (which is in itself being used as a trucking bypass). This would accomplish the same thing as what you propose, only the segments would be far more useful than extending the 402 south from London.

 

[Haljackey]

I could see a co-signed 401/402 and the western part of the 403 being renumbered to 402. Might be a confusing change for a lot of people however.

A highway south of the 401 here is redundant. While I do believe redundancy is a good thing, I just can't see a need for a full freeway - Highway 3 seems to operate fine.

Regarding the traffic volumes on the 401 between 402 and 403, widening to 8 lanes will solve this problem. Only a few bridges remain that would prevent such a project from being undertaken- and those are mostly where the 401 itself passes over roads.
-I wouldn't consider this widening 'induced demand' as much of this traffic is industrial in nature. The issue with this sretch is from a highway operations / traffic flow perspective, not traffic congestion from commuters.

 

[JasonParis]

A part of me wishes we'd renumber all the 400-series highways to something more practical. Perhaps ON-1 (and other odd numbers) for primarily north-south routes. And then ON-2 (and other even numbers) for primarily east-west routes. And just number them by the order in which they were built. I suppose the QEW would probably be ON-2 then and the 401 would be ON-4. And yes, this will never happen, but I think Australia (or a state within it) renumbered all their freeways a while ago, so it is possible.

Having said that, I've always thought the interlined 403 with the QEW and then the Mississauga 403 portion were super-dumb though, although I understand the history. The 403 should end in Burlington. The QEW should just be the QEW. And the Mississauga 403 should either be the 410 or renamed with a new number.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Honestly, The whole provincial highway network needs a total rethink over it's fractured system today. A lot of municipal roads should really be provincial ones, a lot of roads should have adjusted numbers, including the 400-series highways, others should be upgraded to 400-series road designations, etc.

 

[Steve X]

But extending the 402 around the north side of London and connecting with the existing 403 just east of Woodstock would also relieve the section of the 401 that is overcrowded. That would be a significantly shorter (and arguably more beneficial route for both local and long-distance travel patterns) route than extending a highway south of London and more or less following the Highway 3 route to Fort Erie or Niagara Falls.

The Mid-Peninsula would connect to the 403 around Ancaster, providing a bypass of the QEW and the Linc/Red Hill (which is in itself being used as a trucking bypass). This would accomplish the same thing as what you propose, only the segments would be far more useful than extending the 402 south from London.

Wouldn't it be better to keep the 402 the way it is and give that new highway a new designation? If that highway were to meet the 403, then call it the 403 and move the exit numbers west.

Given all the environmental backlashes for building new highways, I wouldn't be surprise they would just expand the 401 between the 402 and 403.

A part of me wishes we'd renumber all the 400-series highways to something more practical. Perhaps ON-1 (and other odd numbers) for primarily north-south routes. And then ON-2 (and other even numbers) for primarily east-west routes. And just number them by the order in which they were built. I suppose the QEW would probably be ON-2 then and the 401 would be ON-4. And yes, this will never happen, but I think Australia (or a state within it) renumbered all their freeways a while ago, so it is possible.

Having said that, I've always thought the interlined 403 with the QEW and then the Mississauga 403 portion were super-dumb though, although I understand the history. The 403 should end in Burlington. The QEW should just be the QEW. And the Mississauga 403 should either be the 410 or renamed with a new number.

I totally agree. Yes, it's pretty much as stupid as UK naming their motorways A1 and A1(M). Then there's a M1. This is like the 11 can't be the 411 cause the A1 section isn't up to 400's standard. They should have just gone with the New Brunswick approach and apply the number to the freeway once it's completed as a bypass to the original highway. 401 should be ON-2 as it mainly replaced that highway. 400 can be ON-11 and follow up into the current ON-11. The 400 extension could just retain ON-69. 404 can be ON-48 and link up with the current ON-48. QEW can really be ON-1. This would eliminate the 410/10 and 417/17 distinction. 405 can be ON-190 to connect to I-190. 416 can go back to being ON-16 with the current ON-16 stub being ON-16A. 406 can just be ON-140. So those folks to wants to see the 140 renumbered to 406 can forget it.

Since Mike Harris already screwed up the system. Ontario highways are just freeways and some primary highway, there isn't a need to maintain a distinction between highways and freeways.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Personally I'd tunnel the 403 E/NE under Pearson to meet up with the 409. Then renaming the whole stretch to one name.

 

[ARG1]

A part of me wishes we'd renumber all the 400-series highways to something more practical. Perhaps ON-1 (and other odd numbers) for primarily north-south routes. And then ON-2 (and other even numbers) for primarily east-west routes. And just number them by the order in which they were built. I suppose the QEW would probably be ON-2 then and the 401 would be ON-4. And yes, this will never happen, but I think Australia (or a state within it) renumbered all their freeways a while ago, so it is possible.

Having said that, I've always thought the interlined 403 with the QEW and then the Mississauga 403 portion were super-dumb though, although I understand the history. The 403 should end in Burlington. The QEW should just be the QEW. And the Mississauga 403 should either be the 410 or renamed with a new number.

I do agree that the numbers should be shuffled to something more consistent - such as having a consistent odd/even pattern for the directions that the highways travel in, however I do also think that we should keep the 400 designation. Its one of those things that is extremely quirky about Ontario that I personally really like, and don't think it poses much harm.

 

[DirectionNorth]

People are so used to the current numbering system - 400, 401, 403, 404, etc. that I don't think there will be major changes. It's like how Yonge is still "11" and Hurontario is "10", two and a half decades after they were un-designated.

It's a fun quirk for us transport nerds.

The provincial highway network is definitely a splattered mess, thanks to the downloading in the 1990s. I would have a review started, on crucial corridors for trade and tourism and transport and blah blah blah, and upload those - I don't think people associate the 1-200 highways to their numbers as much (exceptions include the 2, 7, 10, 11, and 17) and they could (maybe) be renumbered with ease.

 

[lenaitch]

The provincial highway numbering system evolved over decades, as did probably every municipal road system and just about every other jurisdiction. Trying to clean it up, organize it, or whatever else some folks thinks needs to be done would come with a significant price tag and disruption for questionable benefit.

Fundamentally, 400-series, primary, secondary and tertiary highways are built and maintained to different standards, although there are always exceptions. Plus, there are the connecting links and other roads under provincial jurisdiction that aren't normally publicly number but still have a numerical designation for internal purposes (usually 4-digit). Hwy 11 south of North Bay, although divided, is built to a different standard than Hwy 400 and still has at-grade intersections and private entrances.

Other than 400-series, changing designations on routes where there are addresses would create significant cost and disruption for residents and businesses. Think re-naming Dundas, times lots.

 

[Transportfan]

Highway 401 doesn’t come close to many cities and larger towns, including Chatham, London, Woodstock, Kitchener, Guelph, Kingston, or Cornwall. (Or Toronto, for that matter). The largest sprawled towards the highway, but leaving the highway far from urban centres simplified land acquisition, construction, and later expansion.

Apart from Ottawa’s Queensway, Kitchener’s Conestoga Parkway, and the EC Row, the provincial government didn’t really build urban freeways. It built long-distance highways and, later, suburban connectors.

I'm always amazed that the 401 became urbanized through Toronto so soon, but other than Kitchener/Cambridge and Belleville, urbanization still hasn't engulfed it anywhere else yet, save for a few scattered buildings.

However, Highway 2A, precursor to the 401, was built through Oshawa.