Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Transportfan]

Halljackey is quite correct, the 401 was suppose to go further north roughly between Southdale & Commissioners until St.Thomas bitched. In fact it was suppose to take that route and continue to Woodstock NORTH of Ingersol and Dorchester.

The 402 was suppose to go thru the north end of town and continue to the 403 making it one long freeway but London's old wealth in the northern part of the city quickly put an end to that.

Why didn't they build the 402 just north of the city and bypass it? It also seems odd two freeways would be built between London and Woodstock way back then.

 

[Transportfan]

QEW can really be ON-1.

Disagree. 17/417 should be TCH-1.

 

[DirectionNorth]

I'm always amazed that the 401 became urbanized through Toronto so soon, but other than Kitchener/Cambridge and Belleville, urbanization still hasn't engulfed it anywhere else yet, save for a few scattered buildings.

However, Highway 2A, precursor to the 401, was built through Oshawa.

I'd say that urbanization is also occurring in London and Brockville, from Google Maps.

 

[innsertnamehere]

and Belleville. Kingston is also right up against the highway, but it hasn't jumped it yet.

Windsor of course is also on both sides of the new extension of the 401.

 

[tstormers]

and Belleville. Kingston is also right up against the highway, but it hasn't jumped it yet.

Windsor of course is also on both sides of the new extension of the 401.

Windsor didn't grow around that part though and more of had part of the city removed to expand the old road into a highway/service/local road network to the new bridge.
Which is looking nice btw.

 

[ShonTron]

I'm always amazed that the 401 became urbanized through Toronto so soon, but other than Kitchener/Cambridge and Belleville, urbanization still hasn't engulfed it anywhere else yet, save for a few scattered buildings.

However, Highway 2A, precursor to the 401, was built through Oshawa.

Brockville too, but your point stands. You could argue London, but that’s all industry south of the 401.

 

[Steve X]

Brockville too, but your point stands. You could argue London, but that’s all industry south of the 401.

They have a noise barrier which you rarely see on the non urbanized 401 area

 

[DirectionNorth]

The provincial highway numbering system evolved over decades, as did probably every municipal road system and just about every other jurisdiction. Trying to clean it up, organize it, or whatever else some folks thinks needs to be done would come with a significant price tag and disruption for questionable benefit.

Fundamentally, 400-series, primary, secondary and tertiary highways are built and maintained to different standards, although there are always exceptions. Plus, there are the connecting links and other roads under provincial jurisdiction that aren't normally publicly number but still have a numerical designation for internal purposes (usually 4-digit). Hwy 11 south of North Bay, although divided, is built to a different standard than Hwy 400 and still has at-grade intersections and private entrances.

Other than 400-series, changing designations on routes where there are addresses would create significant cost and disruption for residents and businesses. Think re-naming Dundas, times lots.

The important part is that the province is in charge of, and is responsible for maintaining, the important segments of highway. Renumbering would make the system make more sense, but it isn't necessary.

 

[lenaitch]

Disagree. 17/417 should be TCH-1.

Jeez, that would re-start the whole argument that resulted in Ontario not having a Hwy 1; everybody wanted it to go through their community.

and Belleville. Kingston is also right up against the highway, but it hasn't jumped it yet.

Windsor of course is also on both sides of the new extension of the 401.

The distance between the lake and 401 at Belleville is about twice that in Brockville. Give it time.

I'm always amazed that the 401 became urbanized through Toronto so soon, but other than Kitchener/Cambridge and Belleville, urbanization still hasn't engulfed it anywhere else yet, save for a few scattered buildings.

However, Highway 2A, precursor to the 401, was built through Oshawa.

Interesting. Where was that (or better asked, what is it now)? I'm aware of 2A at Port Union leading into Kingston Rd. but I thought everything else through the communities east of Toronto was simply Hwy 2.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm always amazed that the 401 became urbanized through Toronto so soon, but other than Kitchener/Cambridge and Belleville, urbanization still hasn't engulfed it anywhere else yet, save for a few scattered buildings.

However, Highway 2A, precursor to the 401, was built through Oshawa.

Well.........to the extent that he current 401 is through Oshawa that's true.......but the highway doesn't deviate to achieve that, nor pass exceptionally close to DT Oshawa.

Its simply that Oshawa was already linked to the Lake by the time the highway was built.

Jeez, that would re-start the whole argument that resulted in Ontario not having a Hwy 1; everybody wanted it to go through their community.

The distance between the lake and 401 at Belleville is about twice that in Brockville. Give it time.


Interesting. Where was that (or better asked, what is it now)? I'm aware of 2A at Port Union leading into Kingston Rd. but I thought everything else through the communities east of Toronto was simply Hwy 2.

Ontario Highway 2A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There were originally 5 segments of highway designated as Highway 2A.

But according to the above, the segment through Oshawa was roughly the current day 401 alignment.

Ontario Highway 2A (Toronto) Photographs - History of Ontario's Kings Highways

From the above:

 

[lenaitch]

Well.........to the extent that he current 401 is through Oshawa that's true.......but the highway doesn't deviate to achieve that, nor pass exceptionally close to DT Oshawa.

Its simply that Oshawa was already linked to the Lake by the time the highway was built.

Ontario Highway 2A - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There were originally 5 segments of highway designated as Highway 2A.

But according to the above, the segment through Oshawa was roughly the current day 401 alignment.

Ontario Highway 2A (Toronto) Photographs - History of Ontario's Kings Highways

From the above:

View attachment 387177

Thanks for that. I recall the old -style bridges along that section.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

These bridges through Oshawa are the oldest on the provincial freeway network - dating from 1939 IIRC.

Highway 2A between Scarborough and Oshawa started construction in 1937, though did not open until 1942 due to wartime material shortages. Even upon opening - the first true controlled access expressway in Ontario was not paved and operated as a gravel roadway until the final few intersections could be removed and the highway could be paved in 1947.

The remaining bridges on the 401 dating from this era are all scheduled to be replaced in the next few years.

Ontario Highway 2A (Toronto) History - The King's Highways of Ontario

 

[marcus_a_j]

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

These bridges through Oshawa are the oldest on the provincial freeway network - dating from 1939 IIRC.

Highway 2A between Scarborough and Oshawa started construction in 1937, though did not open until 1942 due to wartime material shortages. Even upon opening - the first true controlled access expressway in Ontario was not paved and operated as a gravel roadway until the final few intersections could be removed and the highway could be paved in 1947.

The remaining bridges on the 401 dating from this era are all scheduled to be replaced in the next few years.

Ontario Highway 2A (Toronto) History - The King's Highways of Ontario

I always enjoyed this section of the 401 since I was very young, especially the double-cobrahead lights that I have not seen anywhere else. There was a third bridge that was removed in 2011.

 

[ShonTron]

I always enjoyed this section of the 401 since I was very young, especially the double-cobrahead lights that I have not seen anywhere else. There was a third bridge that was removed in 2011.

The third bridge used to carry the Oshawa Railway, an electric freight line that served industry in central Oshawa, including the old GM plants downtown (which were closed in the 1970s through late 1980s). After the closure of the older GM plants, the railway, operated by CN (and dieselized in the 1960s), was abandoned. The OR - even the freight-only tracks - had a lot of street trackage, including down the middle of Bruce Street.

The OR also had a streetcar line along Simcoe Street until the 1930s from the waterfront to Rossland Road.

 

[Transportfan]

Jeez, that would re-start the whole argument that resulted in Ontario not having a Hwy 1; everybody wanted it to go through their community.

As the transprovincial corridor that carries the national highway that should have a single number, that should not have even been factored in.