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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

$8 billion for the GTA west I could *maybe* see, but even then seems high, that's over double the cost of the 407 east which was a more complex proejct. But $2.2 billion for the Bradford Bypass? That seems way, way overkill. The 404 extension a decade ago cost *$90 million*.
 
Of course I understand that, but that doesn't account for the insane cost inflation. even with a large bridge over the Holland Marsh and two full size interchanges, I just don't see how the highway could cost $140 million a kilometre. Other complex highways like the 407 East have more recently been built for closer to $50 million a kilometre.
 
I guess deficits are no longer an issue for conservatives.

I mean we'll have to see but I really doubt this is the final pricetag. Somehow for a project similar in scope to 407 East, its now expected to cost QUADRUPLE the cost of 407 East. I used to be skeptical of the 6 Billion Pricetag people through around for this project, but 8 billion is so large that I literally do not believe it. Sorry.

Same with the Bradford Bypass. A more reasonable cost would be hovering around 1 to 1.2 Billion.
 
Of course I understand that, but that doesn't account for the insane cost inflation. even with a large bridge over the Holland Marsh and two full size interchanges, I just don't see how the highway could cost $140 million a kilometre. Other complex highways like the 407 East have more recently been built for closer to $50 million a kilometre.
A lot of times the design build contract will include 30 year maintenance. Similar to the Highway 427 Extension. The raw construction cost was about $250M, but price tag was $620M including design, financing, operation, maintenance, etc.
 
A lot of times the design build contract will include 30 year maintenance. Similar to the Highway 427 Extension. The raw construction cost was about $250M, but price tag was $620M including design, financing, operation, maintenance, etc.
yes, makes sense. The province has stated that the Bradford Bypass contract will only be a design-build though, not a design-build-maintain, and conflating those costs as construction costs is erroneous regardless.
 
Of course I understand that, but that doesn't account for the insane cost inflation. even with a large bridge over the Holland Marsh and two full size interchanges, I just don't see how the highway could cost $140 million a kilometre. Other complex highways like the 407 East have more recently been built for closer to $50 million a kilometre.
The foundation needs a lot of work. Building on swamp land is different than on grassland. Sometimes they just charge for the expertise needed.

I don’t know if that should bump up the price tag that significantly however.
 
I post in a lot of pro and anti highway forums - I am just interested in the subject and form opinions from both sides.

Recently there's been a couple funnies shared about Ontario Highways and the pro highway side can't take the joke at all. It's called satire, my dudes.


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I for one quite enjoyed them- hope you do too!
 
All this because the 407 was sold off by Harris...

Hey now, it is just leased (for 99 years)
At least (ha!) we learned our lesson and toll 407 East ourselves.

Speaking of 407 ETR, many sections have reached their maximum width with the OG design limit, with other stretches reaching full build out soon. What's next for the 407? I hope it's replacing the cheap loop ramps at major interchanges with proper flyovers. When done, we'll get a few more stackie bois so 400/407 won't be alone as Canada's only true stack interchange.
 
All this because the 407 was sold off by Harris...
Yep, funny how his dumbness haunts Ontario to this day.

One easy way for the 407 tolls to be lowered, is to amend the 407 Act. Ontario will no long prevent people from renewing the license plates if they dont pay the toll. 407 is a private company, that should be solely their responsibility.

another way to put pressure, the OPP will no longer patrol the 407. they will need to create their own special constables and use the tolls to pay for enforcement.

that should get there cooperation. if not Ontario is no longer subsidizing the 407.

the province can put pressure, but refuse too.

oh and another interesting thing. So the original deal Harris made was around 3 Billion for 30 years of tolls. for an extra 100 million Harris got greedy and extended the lease for 99 years.
 
The gasoline and diesel fuel tax was supposed to be the revenue source to help pay for Ontario's highways. However, with more efficient motors, hybrids, and now electric motor vehicles, that source will become less available in the future. Tolls should be used to help pay for Ontario highways. At the moment, it will come from Ontario's general venue (sale taxes, income taxes, etc.).

BTW. Toronto's Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway is NOT paid by Ontario's fuel taxes. Not paid by Ontario's general revenue. It is paid by Toronto's property taxes. The 905 motorists get to use it for free.
 
Yep, funny how his dumbness haunts Ontario to this day.

One easy way for the 407 tolls to be lowered, is to amend the 407 Act. Ontario will no long prevent people from renewing the license plates if they dont pay the toll. 407 is a private company, that should be solely their responsibility.

another way to put pressure, the OPP will no longer patrol the 407. they will need to create their own special constables and use the tolls to pay for enforcement.

that should get there cooperation. if not Ontario is no longer subsidizing the 407.

the province can put pressure, but refuse too.

oh and another interesting thing. So the original deal Harris made was around 3 Billion for 30 years of tolls. for an extra 100 million Harris got greedy and extended the lease for 99 years.
The OPP police Hwy 407 under a contract paid for by 407 Corp. I don't know how the MTO highway carrier enforcement personnel handle it. I suppose they could get a whole lot of pieces of legislation amended to enable private security to police it.

Edit to add: I also don't know how municipal Fire/Rescue or EMS handle the funding of their responses on the corridor.
 
Does the fire department accept credit cards?

Ontario man charged $1,000 by fire department after his truck goes up in flames

From link.

An Ontario man said he was shocked to get a bill from a collection agency for an SUV fire that happened eight months ago.

“It's like I’m living this nightmare of watching my truck burn all over again," Gary Follett, who used to live in Mississauga, told CTV News Toronto.

In a random act, a stranger set his 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe on fire at 3 a.m. It was completely engulfed in flames and destroyed.

“I looked out the window and I said ‘It’s my truck.’ My truck was on fire, so I scrambled and ran downstairs and when I got there, there were firetrucks," said Follett.

Follett was renting an apartment in Mississauga when the fire happened in April 2021, but he has since moved to Cambridge, where he bought a home.

He just received a notice from a collection agency saying he owes the City of Mississauga $1,026 and he said he is not sure why.

“I opened it and there was a bill for over $1,000. Five months living in Cambridge and I get a bill from the city of Mississauga for something that happened eight months ago," said Follett.

Follett said he has been trying to get someone to explain to him why he got the bill.

“Collections is trying to tell me to go to Mississauga. The city of Mississauga is telling me to go to collections, so no one is answering any of the questions that I have," said Follett.

CTV News Toronto reached out to the city of Mississauga and we were told the thousand dollar charge is the cost of a special foam that was used to put out the fire.

“We reviewed the case of Gary Follett and the truck fire he experienced,” a spokesperson said. “In this case, when our firefighters arrived on the scene, there was evidence of an accelerant having been used. Accelerants require a fire suppression foam additive which can extinguish both class A (regular combustibles) and B (flammable liquid) fires.”

“As there was evidence of an incendiary device and accelerant present, the scene was transferred to Peel Regional Police for further investigation as a suspected arson.”

“The invoice was issued due to the use of Fire Suppression Foam. Fees and charges are a standard billing practice in accordance with the bylaw, and commonly used by municipalities to help manage the high cost of materials in emergency situations. This cost can be recouped by insurance coverage where applicable.”

Follett said he thought his taxes covered the cost of fire services and he isn't happy that he has to pay the bill.

“A thousand dollar bill is something I don't need right now or at any other time," said Follett.

The city said extra charges to put out fires can sometimes be recouped by your insurance company, but Follett said his claim was closed months ago.

Still he's going to try because he feels it's a charge he shouldn't have to pay.
 
I am not totally familiar with the 407 contract, how ever I assume any contract can be broken.....for a price.
I'm also surprised there is no opportunities for renegotiation or updates within that 99 year lease period.
 

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