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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

afransen said:
The HOV lanes are a completely idiotic idea that, as far as I can ascertain, only make congestion worse due to improper lane usage and weaving.
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They're honestly a waste of space because the overwhelming majority of morning traffic are single occupant cars.
 
Haljackey said:
I'm one of the few from outside Greater Toronto that posts here- some others can't stand the 'Toronto perspective', but I like to hear all sides to help decide where I stand on various topics. I hope you appreciate the perspectives I bring to the table as well.

As an outsider, I view the 401 differently than most on this forum. I think that perspective is valuable as it might give you an insight into how others are thinking about these topics. I see the 401 as a way to get through your city quickly or to a destination in your city. If HOV lanes existed, people like me don't care about transfer points or dedicated exits-entrances. I'm using the HOV all way from start to end.

HOVs on the 401 could be considered a 'super express' and only break for merge space at major interchanges where there is a dedicated express-only exit and/or entrance. I want to see HOVs on the 401 one day that run all the way from Highway 8 in Kitchener to the 418 or 35/115. To get through Toronto that would be awesome and would avoid using the 407.

Regarding the 407, I'd like to see not only more long-distance truck traffic use it. but maybe one day make an agreement to convert it to a HOT highway. Cars with more than 1 occupant would pay less tolls - maybe half? And perhaps just the camera/transponder entrance charge would apply with 3 or 4+ people.

These are ways you can move more people without spending much on infrastructure expansion.
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So you're looking for a (likely) single lane free express lane? Would it be physically separated or just lines and paint?


*****

The sensor network required to do road pricing on non-controlled access highways across the province would have to be massive.
 
afransen said:
HOV lanes crawl when there is congestion on the highway due to people having to stop to merge back in to exit. They are pointless.
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To be fair MTO is trying out new merge lanes on the 400 HOVs to prevent this.

And my experience with HOVs is that they do typically operate significantly faster than the regular lanes even in heavy congestion, even if it isn't at full uncongested speeds. They don't save much if any time on weekends though as the prevalence of multi-passenger vehicles is much higher then.

Generally I'm not a huge fan, an extra regular lane is cheaper and will generally produce a better operating highway. In the case of roads like the QEW through Oakville and Burlington, they could have built a 10 lane regular highway or 6+2HOV highway, and switching that road to a regular 10 lane road would have produced much better capacity. MUCH better, probably even for transit.
 
innsertnamehere said:
To be fair MTO is trying out new merge lanes on the 400 HOVs to prevent this.

And my experience with HOVs is that they do typically operate significantly faster than the regular lanes even in heavy congestion, even if it isn't at full uncongested speeds. They don't save much if any time on weekends though as the prevalence of multi-passenger vehicles is much higher then.

Generally I'm not a huge fan, an extra regular lane is cheaper and will generally produce a better operating highway. In the case of roads like the QEW through Oakville and Burlington, they could have built a 10 lane regular highway or 6+2HOV highway, and switching that road to a regular 10 lane road would have produced much better capacity. MUCH better, probably even for transit.
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I would much rather see dedicated bus/emergency vehicle lanes on the outer shoulders.

I have yet to see the improved HOV design in action, but I expect even with the mixing lanes for HOV they will get backed up.
 
innsertnamehere said:
To be fair MTO is trying out new merge lanes on the 400 HOVs to prevent this.

And my experience with HOVs is that they do typically operate significantly faster than the regular lanes even in heavy congestion, even if it isn't at full uncongested speeds. They don't save much if any time on weekends though as the prevalence of multi-passenger vehicles is much higher then.

Generally I'm not a huge fan, an extra regular lane is cheaper and will generally produce a better operating highway. In the case of roads like the QEW through Oakville and Burlington, they could have built a 10 lane regular highway or 6+2HOV highway, and switching that road to a regular 10 lane road would have produced much better capacity. MUCH better, probably even for transit.
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Till traffic catches up and fill all 10 lanes. You'll find trucks wandering all lanes except the left with an all-general lane highway. Just cause one wants to go 105 while the other going 95.
 
innsertnamehere said:
To be fair MTO is trying out new merge lanes on the 400 HOVs to prevent this.

And my experience with HOVs is that they do typically operate significantly faster than the regular lanes even in heavy congestion, even if it isn't at full uncongested speeds. They don't save much if any time on weekends though as the prevalence of multi-passenger vehicles is much higher then.

Generally I'm not a huge fan, an extra regular lane is cheaper and will generally produce a better operating highway. In the case of roads like the QEW through Oakville and Burlington, they could have built a 10 lane regular highway or 6+2HOV highway, and switching that road to a regular 10 lane road would have produced much better capacity. MUCH better, probably even for transit.
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An HOV lane only requires another 1.25m (the painted buffer) of width. That is a marginal extra cost of roadway platform for obvious gains. It's not like carpool lanes are only used in Ontario - they are world wide. The idea is to get people carpooling to reduce the # of vehicles on the road, which improves travel time for all road users.
 
darth_freeman said:
An HOV lane only requires another 1.25m (the painted buffer) of width. That is a marginal extra cost of roadway platform for obvious gains. It's not like carpool lanes are only used in Ontario - they are world wide. The idea is to get people carpooling to reduce the # of vehicles on the road, which improves travel time for all road users.
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HOV are totally useless unless enforce heavily, as too many single drivers use them as well Sunday driver today. Even the 2 person rule is useless to the point 3 or more are a must if you want HOV lanes.
 
so before the election, surprisingly.

Given other urban highway project costs in the GTA, I expect this to come in at the $700-800 million range for construction.
 
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