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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

nfitz said:
Where they have put it is a lot more useful for cars that then drop south to the 401 ... I assume they'll upgrade the 35/115 between there and the newish expressway portion of 115 just north of their, and eliminate the only at-grade interchange.

And although I make fun of those worrying about highway numbers ... let's hope they simply renumber 115 as 7.
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It would still need to be 407, because both 7 and 7A continue west of Peterborough. It would be 407 until where Highway 35/115 currently ends in Peterborough, and then becomes Highway 7 (which would make sense from a natural transition persective, Highway 407 actually becomes 7). Only problem is what would you call the small section between the 401 and the 407? 435?
 
gweed123 said:
It would still need to be 407, because both 7 and 7A continue west of Peterborough. It would be 407 until where Highway 35/115 currently ends in Peterborough, and then becomes Highway 7 (which would make sense from a natural transition persective, Highway 407 actually becomes 7). Only problem is what would you call the small section between the 401 and the 407? 435?
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Which small section between 401 and 407? After it's done it looks like there'll be 3.
 
gweed123 said:
It would still need to be 407, because both 7 and 7A continue west of Peterborough. It would be 407 until where Highway 35/115 currently ends in Peterborough, and then becomes Highway 7 (which would make sense from a natural transition persective, Highway 407 actually becomes 7). Only problem is what would you call the small section between the 401 and the 407? 435?
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I doubt any will use a 400-prefix. Ontario has now built a few expressways now with no 400-series numbering. They've also avoided numbering anything that isn't tolled "407" to avoid confusion - so I doubt that this will be used unless they toll 115. And given that the tolling for this new section of 407 will be controlled differently than the old section, I wouldn't be surprised if the government chooses to use a different number for this extension than 407, when it opens.

Which raises the question of how the tolls fit together. Will we need 2 different transponders? It would be nice if they were both (or at least one) were compatible with the E-ZPass system.
 
nfitz said:
I doubt any will use a 400-prefix. Ontario has now built a few expressways now with no 400-series numbering. They've also avoided numbering anything that isn't tolled "407" to avoid confusion - so I doubt that this will be used unless they toll 115. And given that the tolling for this new section of 407 will be controlled differently than the old section, I wouldn't be surprised if the government chooses to use a different number for this extension than 407, when it opens.

Which raises the question of how the tolls fit together. Will we need 2 different transponders? It would be nice if they were both (or at least one) were compatible with the E-ZPass system.
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Has there been any indication that the 407 extension won't be called 407?
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Oh right. Probably 415?

I think the harder question to answer is what 400-designation the other two connector highways will receive.
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Good point. There's really no parallel provincial highway that they can call it an "upgrade" to. I guess you go with 2 numbers that aren't already taken by other provincial highways, and slap a 4 in front of them. It's the only way to avoid confusion. They may have to end up being something like Highway 442 and 443 or something like that, but at least they won't overlap anything (there may be a Provincial Highway 42 somewhere, I don't know).
 
gweed123 said:
Good point. There's really no parallel provincial highway that they can call it an "upgrade" to. I guess you go with 2 numbers that aren't already taken by other provincial highways, and slap a 4 in front of them. It's the only way to avoid confusion. They may have to end up being something like Highway 442 and 443 or something like that, but at least they won't overlap anything (there may be a Provincial Highway 42 somewhere, I don't know).
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Wikipedia says (good source I know) the Durham West Connector is speculated to become Highway 412.
 
gweed123 said:
Good point. There's really no parallel provincial highway that they can call it an "upgrade" to. I guess you go with 2 numbers that aren't already taken by other provincial highways, and slap a 4 in front of them. It's the only way to avoid confusion. They may have to end up being something like Highway 442 and 443 or something like that, but at least they won't overlap anything (there may be a Provincial Highway 42 somewhere, I don't know).
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There was a provincial highway 42, downloaded the in one of the worst implementations of downloadings ever - handing control of thousands upon thousands of highways without any system to maintain a consistent highway navigation system. Highway 42 ran between (roughly) Brockville and Westport on the Rideau Lakes. Never a freeway need for that route. Highway 43 was a relatively minor but lengthy King's Highway east-west between (roughly) Smiths Falls and Alexandria, parallel to Highway 17/417 to the north and Highway 2/401 to the south.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I think the harder question to answer is what 400-designation the other two connector highways will receive.
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Who says it would? They upgraded much of Highway 11 to expressway and called it Highway 11. In Kitchener they upgraded Highway 8 to expressway and called it 8. They upgraded 7/8 to expressway and called it 7/8. They upgraded 7 to expressway and called it 7. In Waterloo they upgraded 85 to expressway and called it 86 ... and then called it 85. Now west of Ottawa they are upgrading 7 to expressway and calling it 7. West of Sudbury they upgraded a stretch of 17 to expressway and called it 17. When they built that new expressway from Peterborough to 35 and called it 115.

It might get a 400-series designation ... but perhaps they'll simply call it 407 West link and 407 East link.
 
nfitz said:
Who says it would? They upgraded much of Highway 11 to expressway and called it Highway 11. In Kitchener they upgraded Highway 8 to expressway and called it 8. They upgraded 7/8 to expressway and called it 7/8. They upgraded 7 to expressway and called it 7. In Waterloo they upgraded 85 to expressway and called it 86 ... and then called it 85. Now west of Ottawa they are upgrading 7 to expressway and calling it 7. West of Sudbury they upgraded a stretch of 17 to expressway and called it 17. When they built that new expressway from Peterborough to 35 and called it 115.

It might get a 400-series designation ... but perhaps they'll simply call it 407 West link and 407 East link.
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I don't agree with the Province's new approach with naming highways. In Ontario "4##" has the same type of meaning as "I-##" in the US. That is to say "divided expressway with a speed limit of 100". Calling 4 lane expressways by the original number (without the 4 in front of it) I think could potentially confuse a lot of people. The last highway I can think of that, when upgraded, was redesignated was Highway 416 (originally Highway 16, half of which became 416, and half of which remained as Price of Wales Dr in Ottawa). To me, this approach makes a lot more sense.

I know they're doing it to avoid confusion when a highway switches from being 4 lanes to being 2, but still. I don't think anyone is confused when Highway 417 becomes Highway 17 just east of Arnprior. There's no "omg, what road am I on?!"
 
ShonTron said:
There was a provincial highway 42, downloaded the in one of the worst implementations of downloadings ever - handing control of thousands upon thousands of highways without any system to maintain a consistent highway navigation system. Highway 42 ran between (roughly) Brockville and Westport on the Rideau Lakes. Never a freeway need for that route. Highway 43 was a relatively minor but lengthy King's Highway east-west between (roughly) Smiths Falls and Alexandria, parallel to Highway 17/417 to the north and Highway 2/401 to the south.
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Thanks for the clarification. I really just picked two numbers at random to illustrate my point, haha. And I should have known those highways, because I travel around that area quite frequently (used to have a cottage near Westport, and I take Highway 15 to Toronto every now and then).
 
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