Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

[TheTigerMaster]

Personally, I think the Gardiner east of Yonge/Church is toast.

It is a horrid barrier to the Waterfront and it's traffic levels drop off dramatically coming from the QEW. One thing I think is out of the question no matter what they do is building a tunnel. Besides the massive costs, it would be nearly impossible west of Yonge because there is no available land at all...........it's a freeway surrounded by condos next to water and the busiest rail corridor in the country.

What I said ages ago I still believe is the best option for Toronto..........sell the whole damn highway for a song and let the private company charge whatever the hell they can get away with. The big caveat would be that they would have to completely tear down the Yonge/Church to DVP section, clean it up, and rehabilitate it to allow for greespace, apts etc.

The city would get rid of the ongoing Gardiner expense, not have to pay for refurbishment, and get the Yonge/Church to DVP section turned into a liveable urban enviornment free of charge. Toronto would actually make money as the land from the torn down Gardiner East sections could be sold to developers to help pay for the Portland/DonLands LRT and the city would get ongoing property tax revenue from the new condos that would go up and development fees.

If Yonge/Church is gone, you might as well tear down the entire elevated structure and reconfigure the streets in the area. Having it end at Yonge would create a huge bottleneck right in the centre of Downtown Toronto. My preferred solution is to replace it tear down the Gardiner east of Dufferin, replace it with a Lakeshore Avenue and do some major street reconfigurations to ensure proper traffic flow. I have no idea on how the streets should be configured though since all the east/west streets in the area have fairly heavy traffic. The expressway has created quite the conundrum, but it needs to come down.

 

[nfitz]

I have no idea on how the streets should be configured though since all the east/west streets in the area have fairly heavy traffic. The expressway has created quite the conundrum, but it needs to come down.

You could just run the Gardiner into where Front dead-ends on Bathurst. With an off-ramp that leads to Lakeshore.

You could call it something like "Front Street Extension".

 

[TOareaFan]

You could just run the Gardiner into where Front dead-ends on Bathurst. With an off-ramp that leads to Lakeshore.

You could call it something like "Front Street Extension".

You could even have a press conference with the Mayor, the Premier and the Prime Minister each holding oversized cheques telling the world that they guarantee that it will be built and the funding is in place and that irrespective of other things that might happen, it would be open before the opening ceremony of the 2008 summer olympics.

Of course, doing that again might lead people to say...."really, I think I have heard this before".

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You could just run the Gardiner into where Front dead-ends on Bathurst. With an off-ramp that leads to Lakeshore.

You could call it something like "Front Street Extension".

My concern with this is the traffic bottleneck on the Gardiner and the amount of extra traffic on Bathrust and Front.

Ultimately, Toronto is going to have to find a way to lower traffic on the remaining part of the Gardiner. Having it abruptly end in the core of the city will create a mess at the terminal, like with Allen @ Eglinton Ave.

 

[TOareaFan]

My concern with this is the traffic bottleneck on the Gardiner and the amount of extra traffic on Bathrust and Front.

Ultimately, Toronto is going to have to find a way to lower traffic on the remaining part of the Gardiner. Having it abruptly end in the core of the city will create a mess at the terminal, like with Allen @ Eglinton Ave.

I hear what you are saying here but a big problem with the end of the Allen is that there is no "straight through" option. I think when people envision a Gardiner ramp to Front street @ Bathurst (either as a ramp or the terminus of the Gardiner) the cars exiting the freeway would have the option of going straight along Front or turning right or left onto the Bathurst......terminating the Gardiner at this point will create an issue and it is far from ideal but the lack of the straight through option on the Allen exacerbates the problem there and that would not be the case at Bathurst and Front.

 

[dunkalunk]

If the Gardiner were to terminate at Bathurst/Front, I would wholly expect the lanes to be reduced from 6 for 4 back at its interchange with Lake Shore Boulevard. Lake Shore could also feasibly widened from 6 to 8 lanes as it passes Exhibition Place to encourage traffic to exit at this location.

 

[Electrify]

Regarding the Jarvis exit, what if we just get rid of the ramps?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If the Gardiner were to terminate at Bathurst/Front, I would wholly expect the lanes to be reduced from 6 for 4 back at its interchange with Lake Shore Boulevard. Lake Shore could also feasibly widened from 6 to 8 lanes as it passes Exhibition Place to encourage traffic to exit at this location.

Is bannig cars an option?

 

[pman]

If the Gardiner were to terminate at Bathurst/Front, I would wholly expect the lanes to be reduced from 6 for 4 back at its interchange with Lake Shore Boulevard. Lake Shore could also feasibly widened from 6 to 8 lanes as it passes Exhibition Place to encourage traffic to exit at this location.

Before we turn Lakeshore into another 401 perhaps we could consider managing traffic volumes by a combination of tolls and core area parking levies, used to finance improved GO service to western 905.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

You could just run the Gardiner into where Front dead-ends on Bathurst. With an off-ramp that leads to Lakeshore.

You could call it something like "Front Street Extension".

Add an extension that connects to King at the King/Queen/Ronceveles/Queensway intersection and I'm sold.

 

[dunkalunk]

Before we turn Lakeshore into another 401 perhaps we could consider managing traffic volumes by a combination of tolls and core area parking levies, used to finance improved GO service to western 905.

I am all for tolling the entire length of the Gardiner to the 427, although additional lanes on Lake Shore may still be required to divert some of the volume. Any solution to replace or refurbish parts of the existing elevated guideway need to take lane reduction into account

If there were 15 minute service on the Lakeshore GO line, it may also be worth considering the relocation of the Mimico GO station to Park Lawn Road with a massive parking garage to take traffic off the Gardiner before it narrows. The same could be considered for the Kitchener Line by relocating the Etobicoke North GO Station to Islington and adjusting the ramps to give it better access to the 401.

 

[dunkalunk]

Add an extension that connects to King at the King/Queen/Ronceveles/Queensway intersection and I'm sold.

There is no way that you'd be able to fit in ramps here. A better option would be to put in an intermodal hub connecting GO, the DRL, TTC Streetcars at the same location.

 

[BrettK]

How about this:

2 lanes/direction of the Gardiner go to one-way Front/Wellington which will be 3 lanes wide with "green waves". 1 lane/direction goes to Fort York Blvd/Bremner Blvd.

 

[dunkalunk]

Fort York/Bremner is already slated to be a streetcar corridor in the WWRLT, and I don't think it would be appropriate to place an onramp there. I would instead prefer something along the lines of this:

Link to Google Map

The Gardiner would drop for 6 to 4 lanes at Lake Shore Boulevard to reduce the amount of traffic on Front and to allow for construction of bus bypass shoulders on the existing elevated portion of the Gardiner.

There would also be an underpass beneath Spadina to bring westbound traffic from Wellington to Front Street and reduce the number of light cycles at that intersection. Turn restrictions could also be put in place at Bathurst to cope with left-turning traffic.

Parking structures could be built at Clarence Square and at Strachan to keep private vehicles off of downtown streets and provide easy access to the WWLRT and DRL (Wellington alignment)

 

[innsertnamehere]

Cost-wise I think you are looking at around $500 million for that.