Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

[bleu]

Quite frankly, I've found Manhattan quite parkless in comparison with Toronto. Sure, they've got Central Park - but if your not near it, and you just want a 5-minute walk to find some greenspace - your not going to have an easy time of it. Though the High Line is certainly an improvement!

Not true.
There are quite many smaller parks scattered around Manhattan.
Downtown: Battery Park, City Hall Park, Columbus Park, Washington Square Park, East River Park
Midtown: Union Square Park, Madison Square Park, Bryan Park
Uptown: Morning side Park, St Nicolas Park, Marcus Gravy Park etc

Many of them are small, but not smaller than a typical park in Toronto. For example, Bryan Park is about 70% of Allen Gardens.
Barttery park is 25 acres, much bigger than Queen Park. East River Park is 57 acres, 50% larger than trinity bellwoods park.

Manhattan residents actually have amazing easy access to parks and green space, even without Central Park.

 

[dunkalunk]

I think the best option to increase parkland in Toronto is to deck over sections of the rail corridor. One of the best opportunities I see would be to connect Stanley Park to Fort York and the lakeshore over top of the Lakeshore and Kitchener rail lines. Something like this.

 

[nfitz]

Not true.

What do you mean not true. The criteria was a 5-minute walk. A few parks for such a huge population is a disgrace.

Manhattan residents actually have amazing easy access to parks and green space, even without Central Park.

They have some - but it's still crap compared to our great city.

On the other hand, who needs a park, when your subway station entrances double as public toilets?

The distance between downtown Manhattan and central park is about the same as that of downtown Toronto and highpark... makes you realize how big and dense Manhattan is

LOL!

 

[bleu]

They have some - but it's still crap compared to our great city.

On the other hand, who needs a park, when your subway station entrances double as public toilets?

Since you are one of those "Manhattan is hell" kind of people, I guess further discussion is redundant.
It amazes me how desperate some people want to smear the image of other cities. NYC is a toilet, Chicago is a crime bed, LA is a chaotic network of freeways. They all suck!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Since you are one of those "Manhattan is hell" kind of people, I guess further discussion is redundant.
It amazes me how desperate some people want to smear the image of other cities. NYC is a toilet, Chicago is a crime bed, LA is a chaotic network of freeways. They all suck!

NYC is a toilet. But it's still a great city.

LA is a chaotic mess of freeways. But it's one of my favourite cities on the planet.

Chicago really is a horrendous crime bed with unacceptable levels of poverty. And I have nothing redeeming to say about that city...

 

[sixrings]

NYC is a toilet. But it's still a great city.

LA is a chaotic mess of freeways. But it's one of my favourite cities on the planet.

Chicago really is a horrendous crime bed with unacceptable levels of poverty. And I have nothing redeeming to say about that city...

Michael Jordan, Oprah, and Obama

 

[nfitz]

Since you are one of those "Manhattan is hell" kind of people, I guess further discussion is redundant.

Manhattan is a great city. I just don't see the need to smear our city, particularly on a subject where Manhattan has a weakness, and we have a strength.

It amazes me how desperate some people want to smear the image of other cities.

So we're just supposed to smear our own city? I guess that's the grass is always greener view of the world!

 

[ssiguy2]

Meanwhile back at the Gardiner.........

One very good thing about the Gardiner debate is that it's falling down. If it wasn't the debate would continue for another 20 years but falling concrete will force the politicians and bureaucrats to not only create a firm plan but also had to pay for it regardless of what that plan is.

The falling down of the Gardiner is one of the best things that could happen to Toronto's Waterfront, the DRL, and the Gardiner itslef. Those falling chunks of concrete is forcing the city to make a doable and agreed upon plan and building it at lightening speed. This is one decision that cannot be filed under the "to do list" and it requires all parties to put aside their ideological difference to resolve the issue before the engineers resolve it for them.

It's funny how the elevated Gardiner which most transit advocates hate, has become the impetus for transit building. Who would have ever imagined that elevated roadway that is the antithesis of modern urban planning could turn into the best chance Toronto has had in decades of getting the ever elusive DRL. The "Friends of the Gardiner" may turn out to be the best friends transit advocates have ever had.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Meanwhile back at the Gardiner.........

One very good thing about the Gardiner debate is that it's falling down. If it wasn't the debate would continue for another 20 years but falling concrete will force the politicians and bureaucrats to not only create a firm plan but also had to pay for it regardless of what that plan is.

The falling down of the Gardiner is one of the best things that could happen to Toronto's Waterfront, the DRL, and the Gardiner itslef. Those falling chunks of concrete is forcing the city to make a doable and agreed upon plan and building it at lightening speed. This is one decision that cannot be filed under the "to do list" and it requires all parties to put aside their ideological difference to resolve the issue before the engineers resolve it for them.

It's funny how the elevated Gardiner which most transit advocates hate, has become the impetus for transit building. Who would have ever imagined that elevated roadway that is the antithesis of modern urban planning could turn into the best chance Toronto has had in decades of getting the ever elusive DRL. The "Friends of the Gardiner" may turn out to be the best friends transit advocates have ever had.

Remind me again how the Gardiner is helping with the DRL...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

ssiguy:

What firm plan? All that the city is proposing is repairing the structure pretty much as is (which is pretty much what the city had been doing for the last 50 years). The EA for the eastern section predates the current state of degradation and was put on hold by his worship without a council vote. And in totality, none of this has much to do with the DRL.

AoD

 

[ssiguy2]

Because no matter what they decide to do with the Gardiner it will have to entail some form of planning of rail service along the rail corridor that runs right beside it. They can't bury the Gardiner without vastly inproving the Lakeshore GO corridor with subway level service during it's long construction. If they try to keep the Gardiner open while tunneling that means that the tunnel or new high cable Gardiner bridge will have to go over the rail lines as it can't go anywhere else due to all the condos.

There is also no way in hell that Toronto or Metrolinx are going to invest in such huge sums to fix the Gardiner without building a DRL. This is also one area where the City has the upper hand because it is a city road and therefore can tell Metrolinx they will close the Gardiner unless the money for a DRL is immediate and not on some imaginary timeline. Toronto could easily do this because very few Torontonians actually use it. The Gardiner is just the QEW with a different name.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There is also no way in hell that Toronto or Metrolinx are going to invest in such huge sums to fix the Gardiner without building a DRL.

In the words of the Right Honorable Pierre Elliot Trudeau, "just watch me":

[video=youtube;ih0tJeKB3PY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih0tJeKB3PY[/video]

But seriously, you've failed to explain the correlation between the DRL and the Gardiner Expressway. I can't begin to see how DRL funding is at all tied to the Gardiner.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

All the really good parks are in Queens. For the topic at hand? Yes. Bury, boulevard it, turn it into a park... just get rid of the damn thing.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Since you are one of those "Manhattan is hell" kind of people, I guess further discussion is redundant.
It amazes me how desperate some people want to smear the image of other cities. NYC is a toilet, Chicago is a crime bed, LA is a chaotic network of freeways. They all suck!

Toronto is nice, if you actually get around to seeing all of it. But you won't because the transit is crap as the highways end in random places.

NYC is a toilet. But it's still a great city.

LA is a chaotic mess of freeways. But it's one of my favourite cities on the planet.

Chicago really is a horrendous crime bed with unacceptable levels of poverty. And I have nothing redeeming to say about that city...

Take a trip. Chicago has some great places at a lower cost of living than here.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Toronto is nice, if you actually get around to seeing all of it. But you won't because the transit is crap as the highways end in random places.



Take a trip. Chicago has some great places at a lower cost of living than here.

I've been to Chicago. It's a great city (some parts). An amazing city in fact (some parts). Wouldn't want to live there though. Far too many issues with that city in my opinion.