Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[Northern Light]

Sounds great on paper, but most loans are given to small business. Does Pharma/dental care help someone set up a 2-3 person business in an under-serviced Northern Ontario town that wouldn't be able to afford to offer dental/drug plan anyway? Without the loans, many business wouldn't exist, period. They exist to create employment, keep employment, or generally add value to economy.

Most government grants don't create businesses. You can read the press releases from the relevant programs; they are used to fund expansion/modernization.

My issue w/this is that the programs invariably 'pick winners'; and also don't typically do anything to secure any productivity benefits go to employees (higher wages), or secure above-minimum severance.

On top of which, as you note, in absolute dollars, the big money doesn't flow to small business, and where it does, its often market-distorting nonsense.

Why do we have a horse-racing industry in Ontario that is entirely dependent on government largesse? Virtually no one attends most races anymore. That's well over 100M per year right there.

Why not kebosh that and invest instead in lower tuition, more student places, or the like?

But it's not "efficiency" then, as so many programs are underfunded. It's just calling the dealer out on the fixed shell game.

Well, efficiency, as in the general principles of lean six sigma, means to eliminate any redundant/unnecessary processes and steps in service of delivering your product.

I would argue, eliminating duplicate administrative functions through schools systems and boards qualifies; and I would argue that eliminating programs for business that have, at best, a mixed track record, instead investing in childcare which increases the labour force; or education which increases the supply of skilled workers is a form of efficiency too, by directing resources to where they produce the best outcome for the dollar.

I think we mostly agree here on the desired outcomes and many (but not all) relevant steps.

We just do so with slightly different points of emphasis and a different rhetorical flourish.

***

As to the shell game...........indeed, I think what appeals to many people when they hear about efficiency is the idea that they don't get enough back for their taxes.

That the last tax hike they remember didn't produce a gain they remember in their life.

That is a problem.

Its not necessarily about efficiency, it can be about money out the door in tax cuts to corporations etc etc.

But either way, people want to hear exactly how money will deliver value.

I don't think that's an unfair ask.

Its one the 'right' has been more effective at exploiting.

 

[zang]

The world is different from the 1950s and 1960s.

Yes, we've spent the last 30 years handing the reigns over to the rich.

If you want to push taxes on the rich especially corporations it would have to be across the major economies at once.

Ahh, the old "we'll just drive them away" argument.

Ideas like this ignore that where people are, business will be. Something will move in to fill the void. The argument also falls apart when you look at other countries tax rates. UAE had a whopping 55% corporate tax rate last year, so it must be void of any and all business. But it's not. And plenty of western companies are there as well. Johnson & Johnson, CitiBank, etc. You can buy a Coke, a Toyota or McDonalds. Howabout second-highest, Brazil? Big companies there. Lots of business.

Okay, okay, so you say their general standard of living isn't as high. But France has the 4th highest corporate tax rate and 9th highest personal tax rate, and yet Airbus, L'Oreal, Sanofi, Essilor, LVME, Vivendi, Danone, Michelin, Sephora (all big players or leaders in their respective fields) are all headquartered there. They have a roughly equivalent standard of living as us in Canada.

Dare I get really unfair to you and mention Northern Europe again?

 

[Jasmine18]

Oooh, sick burn. (Still waiting on the number of sexist/homophobic memes you counted, btw.)

Except, after the first Black President left office and the USA was poised to vote in the first female president, the never-voters came out in force to vote in the most misogynist, racist president in recent history. See how the pendulum went from progressive to regressive?

Also, winning barely 1/3rd of the popular vote in 2014 isn't exactly proof positive that Wynne was by any means popular then.

Do you believe when someone dislikes someone it has to always do the fact they are a woman or their sexual orientation or that a lesbian woman cannot become unlikeable as a person.
Like that annoying guy in the office, do you dislike hate him because he is a minority or because you find his personality insufferable?


Yes Hillary lost but the fact was she was hated on by even progressives very harshly (she lies, she duplicitous etc)

Thing is Obama ran in 2016 again he likely would have won though, because unlike Hillary he is personally very popular as a person. People may not like his ideas but generally, people thought Obama was a decent guy.


I am not doubting that sexism and racism and homophobia are driving factors but personal likeability is a much bigger factor that I find you are discounting.

 

[Jasmine18]

Yes, we've spent the last 30 years handing the reigns over to the rich.



Ahh, the old "we'll just drive them away" argument.

Ideas like this ignore that where people are, business will be. Something will move in to fill the void. The argument also falls apart when you look at other countries tax rates. UAE had a whopping 55% corporate tax rate last year, so it must be void of any and all business. But it's not. And plenty of western companies are there as well. Johnson & Johnson, CitiBank, etc. You can buy a Coke, a Toyota or McDonalds. Howabout second-highest, Brazil? Big companies there. Lots of business.

Okay, okay, so you say their general standard of living isn't as high. But France has the 4th highest corporate tax rate and 9th highest personal tax rate, and yet Airbus, L'Oreal, Sanofi, Essilor, LVME, Vivendi, Danone, Michelin, Sephora (all big players or leaders in their respective fields) are all headquartered there. They have a roughly equivalent standard of living as us in Canada.

Dare I get really unfair to you and mention Northern Europe again?

First of all Brasil and UAE are corrupt as hell so I dont buy for a second they are actually paying those tax rates. Like India has a lot of taxes but do the rich actually pay them, not really...

France's Economy has been a mess for decades, and Northern European countries Corporate tax rates are actually pretty low.

In actuality to avoid this issue, you would pressure the Caymen Island and Ireland type nations of the world

 

[zang]

Well if we axed the CBC we could build 10km of subway line across Canada a year

By the way, the CBC probably paid for itself last year with the hat trick success of Schitt's Creek, Workin' Moms and Kim's Convenience outside of Canada.

 

[Jasmine18]

By the way, the CBC probably paid for itself last year with the hat trick success of Schitt's Creek, Workin' Moms and Kim's Convenience outside of Canada.

never heard of these shows in my life and these shows could easily be made with the Canadian film fund then 1.5 billion dollars a year and I doubt these shows make anywhere near that much revenue.

Like I would prefer the CBC stop spending money on broadcasting and just make high-quality tv shows about Canadian culture instead that can be sold to netflix and amazon. Like they stop broadcasting apart from the news side and focus on making tv shows.

Like the best CBC show by far where co-productions like Book or Negores and Anne with an E.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From CBC's consolidated reports at this link in thousands of Canadian dollars (left column 2019, right most column 2018) :

 

[Northern Light]

never heard of these shows in my life lol

From the British paper, The Guardian:

I would also note that CBC has sold its drama Coroner to the U.S. network CW: (from The Hollywood Reporter)

The CW Bolsters Summer Schedule With 4 Acquired Shows

The network has also moved up its premiere dates for CBS All Access' 'Tell Me a Story' and Canadian drama 'Coroner.'

 

[zang]

Do you believe when someone dislikes someone it has to always do the fact they are a woman or their sexual orientation or that a lesbian woman cannot become unlikeable as a person.
Like that annoying guy in the office, do you dislike hate him because he is a minority or because you find his personality insufferable?

No, but when I don't like someone, I don't suddenly weaponize that descriptor, which is what many people did with Wynne (Gay/Female/Appearance).[/QUOTE]

First of all Brasil and UAE are corrupt as hell so I dont buy for a second they are actually paying those tax rates. Like India has a lot of taxes but do the rich actually pay them, not really...

Brazil, sure, but uhhh, the UAE has a better ranking on the CPI than the US, Israel and half of Europe:

Corruption Perceptions Index 2019 for

See more about in the 2019 Corruption Perceptions Index

www.transparency.org

Why did you assume the UAE was so corrupt?

France's Economy has been a mess for decades

If by "mess" you mean second largest economy in the EU for a long time running.

It's also a matter of perspective. France has a AAA credit rating with DBRS and Aa2 with Moody's and its economy has contracted 14% this year due to Covid. Compare that to what's perceived as the world's strongest economy, which has AAA and Aaa respectively and just contracted by two and a half times that.

and Northern European countries Corporate tax rates are actually pretty low.

With aggressively high personal tax rates on the rich (65% over €127,000), and better standards of living.

In actuality to avoid this issue, you would pressure the Caymen Island and Ireland type nations of the world

Or we could just let those countries do their own thing and tax any profit leaving the country at the same percentage as the corporate tax rate. Boom, done. Zero advantage to being offshore.

 

[zang]

The network has also moved up its premiere dates for CBS All Access' 'Tell Me a Story' and Canadian drama 'Coroner.'

CanCon TV has been really knocking it out internationally since Flashpoint. Many shows have been hits outside of the country, and friends in the TV biz have never been busier.
As the big US networks have been looking for the next damp rehashed sitcom or emergency services show (Chicago HMD is on it's way, I know it!), we've been doing some mostly great stuff that often pulls in more views than the big three.

Orphan Black (CTV co-production)
Murdoch Mysteries (in 110 countries, CBC)
Heartland (14 seasons, 119 countries, CBC)
Alias Grace (CBC)
Paw Patrol (ugh, TVO co-production),
Vikings (Shaw/Corus)
Letterkenny (Bell Media)
Frontier (Bell Media): Geez, I mean Bell created a series about a half-Cree trapper in a historical drama set in Northern Ontario about breaking the Hudson's Bay Co.'s monopoly on fur trading. There are often full scenes of the show spoken strictly in Cree. It is so Canadian it hurts, and it's a hit internationally. (Jason Momoa may have something to do with that, but I digress).

That's not including all the all-Canadian productions on US-owned properties. We aren't just producing cheaper stuff, we're producing *better* stuff. And it's made easier with having some of the best SFX companies HQed in Canada. I've heard rumours of full US production companies planning to move up here permanently, as Hollywood's slow death is being dramatically hastened with Covid. Unless the US somehow pulls a vaccine out of nowhere, they're in this for the long haul, and a whole bunch of contracts will end unfulfilled if they aren't able to film. Ship cast, crew, sets and equipment up here, quarantine for a few weeks, test regularly and film now, as opposed to waiting a year or two...

 

[Northern Light]

CanCon TV has been really knocking it out internationally since Flashpoint. Many shows have been hits outside of the country, and friends in the TV biz have never been busier.
As the big US networks have been looking for the next damp rehashed sitcom or emergency services show (Chicago HMD is on it's way, I know it!), we've been doing some mostly great stuff that often pulls in more views than the big three.

Orphan Black (CTV co-production)
Murdoch Mysteries (in 110 countries, CBC)
Heartland (14 seasons, 119 countries, CBC)
Alias Grace (CBC)
Paw Patrol (ugh, TVO co-production),
Vikings (Shaw/Corus)
Letterkenny (Bell Media)
Frontier (Bell Media): Geez, I mean Bell created a series about a half-Cree trapper in a historical drama set in Northern Ontario about breaking the Hudson's Bay Co.'s monopoly on fur trading. There are often full scenes of the show spoken strictly in Cree. It is so Canadian it hurts, and it's a hit internationally. (Jason Momoa may have something to do with that, but I digress).

That's not including all the all-Canadian productions on US-owned properties. We aren't just producing cheaper stuff, we're producing *better* stuff. And it's made easier with having some of the best SFX companies HQed in Canada. I've heard rumours of full US production companies planning to move up here permanently, as Hollywood's slow death is being dramatically hastened with Covid. Unless the US somehow pulls a vaccine out of nowhere, they're in this for the long haul, and a whole bunch of contracts will end unfulfilled if they aren't able to film. Ship cast, crew, sets and equipment up here, quarantine for a few weeks, test regularly and film now, as opposed to waiting a year or two...

CTV's Transplant is also on the NBC Fall schedule.

And I've heard well placed rumours that more Canadian shows are likely to be on the US network schedules by spring.

 

[zang]

CTV's Transplant is also on the NBC Fall schedule.

And I've heard well placed rumours that more Canadian shows are likely to be on the US network schedules by spring.

We’re hot right now. Long gone are the fears of setting a show in Canada that may be intended for US markets. Viewers don’t seem to care as much about the country it’s set in as much as US network execs made producers believe for so very long.

 

[Jasmine18]

View attachment 262218

From the British paper, The Guardian:

View attachment 262219

I would also note that CBC has sold its drama Coroner to the U.S. network CW: (from The Hollywood Reporter)

The CW Bolsters Summer Schedule With 4 Acquired Shows

The network has also moved up its premiere dates for CBS All Access' 'Tell Me a Story' and Canadian drama 'Coroner.'

But what that is the point though of being a broadcaster in 2020. After they lost hockey night in Canada, the number of Canadians who actually watch the cbc on tv has gone down to almost nothing.

Why are we spending 1.5 billion for a huge amount of office space and focus on broadcasting for the CBC when no one really actually watches the actual tv network apart for the news. Like I know the CBC has huge office spaces and infrastructure in every big city in Canada and I am like this seems like a huge waste.

We can easily do much more with a fraction and just make tv shows to sell off to major distributors where people actually watch CBC content.

like people who here defend the cbc, when is the last time you actually watched the cbc on television?

lol

 

[Northern Light]

But what that is the point though of being a broadcaster in 2020. After they lost hockey night in Canada, the number of Canadians who actually watch the cbc on tv has gone down to almost nothing.

Why are we spending 1.5 billion for a huge amount of office space and focus on broadcasting for the CBC when no one really actually watches the actual tv network apart for the news. Like I know the CBC has huge office spaces and infrastructure in every big city in Canada and I am like this seems like a huge waste.

We can easily do much more with a fraction and just make tv shows to sell off to major distributors where people actually watch CBC content.

like people who here defend the cbc, when is the last time you actually watched the cbc on television?

lol

I don't watch much TV at all; so I'm a bad choice for the question; but I'm also not sure why its relevant.

CBC is not just an English TV network.

Its CBC News Network

Its The Documentary Channel

Its the GEM streaming service

Its CBC Radio 1, CBC Radio 2, CBC Radio 3

Its cbc.ca

Then it is also the French language counterpart to all those things.

CBC is also a large producer of Children's programming

1.5B is total budget, not the public subsidy.

CBC generates about 400M in Ad sales, plus revenue from sales of some of its programs in foreign markets.

Also, yes it does have surplus space in the CBC Broadcast Centre............which it leases out, at market rates.

 

[Jasmine18]

I don't watch much TV at all; so I'm a bad choice for the question; but I'm also not sure why its relevant.

CBC is not just an English TV network.

Its CBC News Network

Its The Documentary Channel

Its the GEM streaming service

Its CBC Radio 1, CBC Radio 2, CBC Radio 3

Its cbc.ca

Then it is also the French language counterpart to all those things.

CBC is also a large producer of Children's programming

1.5B is total budget, not the public subsidy.

CBC generates about 400M in Ad sales, plus revenue from sales of some of its programs in foreign markets.

Also, yes it does have surplus space in the CBC Broadcast Centre............which it leases out, at market rates.

as i said in 2020 dont really see the point of the cbc being a tv broadcaster anymore

Like as i said the CbC should just focus on the news channel, the website and making tv shows. That is it.

Rest is pretty pointless now.