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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

Also......I've met many an educated person who I would consider stupid.

As for being informed or not, I don't even think that's necessarily it either. Many people were well enough informed and thought their non-plan was a good idea for their own reasons.

It's true, though, that many people don't know how things work, but then, these aren't necessarily confined to voting for our current government's ilk. Liberal and NDP voters can also be stupid boors.

The PCs don't have a lock on intellectually stunted voters. To think otherwise is arrogant and ignorant.
 
I have worked in adult basic education for a heck of a long time. I have met a lot of people who have achieved much with little traditional schooling. When I say uneducated, I am not talking about formal education, rather about voters who educate themselves on the issues. Perhaps I should have said informed. Far too many people make their voting decisions based on buck-a-beer and gravy train slogans, $20 bills handed out and drain the swamp rhetoric, which the Ford brothers know only too well and use to their advantage. They know that their base isn’t going to read or listen past the headlines and slogans.

Also......I've met many an educated person who I would consider stupid.

As for being informed or not, I don't even think that's necessarily it either. Many people were well enough informed and thought their non-plan was a good idea for their own reasons.

It's true, though, that many people don't know how things work, but then, these aren't necessarily confined to voting for our current government's ilk. Liberal and NDP voters can also be stupid boors.

The PCs don't have a lock on intellectually stunted voters. To think otherwise is arrogant and ignorant.

I think @PinkLucy made some pretty good distinctions there.

I don't think that conflicts w/most of what @MTown is saying either.

I would add, its possible to be educated, and informed, but narrow-minded, myopic, short-sighted or just plain selfish.

That said, many of those latter traits are more common or exacerbated by low levels of information and/or education (formal or informal).

While these negative traits can and do apply to some voters of virtually every party and across the political spectrum, it certainly would be my personal experience that they are somewhat more common
on the political right at the moment, and among those who support brazen populism in particular.

This is reflected in detailed polling data, but also what one can see simply by looking at electoral results across the province; that areas with a higher proportion of university graduates elected far fewer Conservatives
than those with a lower average level of educational attainment.

Again, I'm speaking of Doug Ford's particular brand of Conservatives here, rather than any historical/classical sense of the word.

I don't think there is anything magical in this, it tends to be tied how much one has seen of the world as the more people you meet and places you go the more (most people) develop empathy and understanding for 'the other'.

That experience exists for many folks lacking formal education too; but in our province it tends to be more associated with higher-income earners (who can afford to travel and have different experiences) and that in turn is associated with higher levels of
formal education in many cases.

****

Now let me throw in a final note which is that progressives can do a disservice to the cause when they simply demean or dismiss those who voted differently or think differently, whatever the cause.

The reality is that those voters will be with us again in 4 years, and in order to lure about a 1/4 of them over to a more progressive choice, or motivate some of those who didn't vote, the centre-left must be able to speak their language.

That's both substance and tone.

There must be a recognition of what grates on certain people and why; and how to sell what we might view as better ideas to those same folks by presenting them in a way that resonates.

Because people, for instance, prefer a simple-sounding message, does not necessarily mean they are stupid. It could be an allergy to conventional political speak which can sometimes be more convoluted than nuanced.
 
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I agree that both sides need to stop the name calling and demeaning. If you truly think buck a beer is a good idea and can explain why, I appreciate that even though I don’t agree. But using names as the basis of an argument is ridiculous, as is whataboutism, although both pale in the face of tossing around supposed facts without first verifying their source and veracity.
 
Personally I find demeaning on the basis of education and socioeconomic status unsavory (and sadly you do see that in the urban class) - but on the flip side, I found those who revel in their own ignorance and stonewall after being pointed out to be wrong just as distasteful.

AoD
 
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Now let me throw in a final note which is that progressives can do a disservice to the cause when they simply demean or dismiss those who voted differently or think differently, whatever the cause.

This happens on every part of the political spectrum. Little-c conservatives can be *just* as demeaning or dismissive of those who vote/think differently, and it certainly hasn't stopped conservative governments from getting elected. Politesse is irrelevant in such cases, and even moreso in today's political climate.
 
This happens on every part of the political spectrum. Little-c conservatives can be *just* as demeaning or dismissive of those who vote/think differently, and it certainly hasn't stopped conservative governments from getting elected. Politesse is irrelevant in such cases, and even moreso in today's political climate.

Certainly - I have no problem with being blunt and harsh - but still relatively polite. You aren't doing politeness for the other guy - you should be doing it for yourself.

AoD
 
And how do you define and categorize the behaviour of the Cons to each other? Does the name "Patrick" ring any bells? It's not just what the Cons are doing to others, it's also what they do to themselves.

For some odd reason, the Fords made a name internationally by their antics. Not Wynne, not Horwath. You play by the sword, you die by it. And Doug Ford certainly followed in his brother's shaky footsteps in the international press. The New York Times, Financial Times, Economist, Guardian, WashPost and many other quality publications watched and reported in shocked bemusement of how the same folly repeated itself, and continues to do so.
 
Personally I find demeaning on the basis of education and socioeconomic status unsavory (and sadly you do see that in the urban class) - but on the flip side, I found those who revel in their own ignorance and stonewall after being pointed out to be wrong just as distasteful.

AoD

There's a certain amount of selfishness and lack of self-awareness that's driving politics these days. But lack of education (in the broad sense of bettering one's self and one's knowledge) is a self-centredness in its own right, and I think it's deserving of ridicule. If you think everyone else needs improvement—but that you yourself don't—you're part of a problem. Where some in the city can be that way, I think a great amount of progressives have actually sought out self-improvement. And from my experience, a lot of conservatives (those without vested interests in globalization/wage stagnation/etc.) don't. A failure of people to actually read the Sex Ed Curriculum is a great example of that, and in part is what led to Doug Ford being elected.

Education is growth. Lack of willingness to educate oneself is outright arrogance.
 
Certainly - I have no problem with being blunt and harsh - but still relatively polite. You aren't doing politeness for the other guy - you should be doing it for yourself.

AoD
Oh, I agree. I just didn't like the implication that it is a problem solely with the left.
 
There's a certain amount of selfishness and lack of self-awareness that's driving politics these days. But lack of education (in the broad sense of bettering one's self and one's knowledge) is a self-centredness in its own right, and I think it's deserving of ridicule. If you think everyone else needs improvement—but that you yourself don't—you're part of a problem. Where some in the city can be that way, I think a great amount of progressives have actually sought out self-improvement. And from my experience, a lot of conservatives (those without vested interests in globalization/wage stagnation/etc.) don't. A failure of people to actually read the Sex Ed Curriculum is a great example of that, and in part is what led to Doug Ford being elected.

Education is growth. Lack of willingness to educate oneself is outright arrogance.

Education and self-improvement is one thing; formal education and credentialism is another - nothing gets me to cringe more than when the latter is thrown out as a point of argument in and on its' own (though there are circumstances that may call for it - e.g. where expert opinion is required). Just because someone didn't jump through the hoops doesn't mean they are not learned or incapable of self-improvement.

AoD
 
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But lack of education (in the broad sense of bettering one's self and one's knowledge) is a self-centredness in its own right, and I think it's deserving of ridicule. If you think everyone else needs improvement—but that you yourself don't—you're part of a problem.
Very well put. I'm reminded more of the Planet of the Apes than a well functioning democracy. I'd use the term "Luddites" save that it's almost always misused and misappropriated. Luddites meant no harm, but found truth in simplicity.

The Cons mean harm, and resent education.
 
Ontario makes basic math test a requirement for teaching licence

From link.

Ontario will be the first province in the country to require student teachers to pass a basic math test before getting their teaching licence, according to legislative changes introduced by the Progressive Conservative government.

Education Minister Lisa Thompson said on Thursday that the province would work with the Ontario College of Teachers, which licenses, regulates and disciplines educators, to develop details on the regulation. Ms. Thompson was vague on the how the test would be administered and whether both elementary and high-school teachers would be required to take it.

“We need to ensure that our students have teachers in front of them that have the capacity to teach the math that’s required for today and for jobs of the future,” Ms. Thompson told reporters.


A spokeswoman for Ms. Thompson said no other province requires aspiring teachers to take a math test. But teacher testing is not uncommon in jurisdictions outside Canada. Australia recently implemented nationwide mandatory math testing to ensure that future teachers meet minimal proficiency math standards, and several U.S. jurisdictions also mandate teacher-testing in math, said Mary Reid, an assistant professor at the University of Toronto’s Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE).

The government’s move to test teacher candidates on fractions, percentages and other math concepts runs contrary to a recommendation by those in the math community, who say a mandatory arithmetic course in university-training programs would be more beneficial.


“I’m really reluctant to say good things about it,” Prof. Reid said. “It should really be about supporting teacher candidates ... giving them the confidence through courses and through tutoring and through professional development. It’s not about giving them a test.”

Sam Hammond, president of the Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario, called the mandatory test “unwarranted and unnecessary” and said the government should be supporting teachers.

But Clive Packer, an Ottawa-area parent who has been outspoken about the failure to change the direction of math education, welcomed the math test. He added that there needs to be a university-level course for student teachers before they write it.

Math has become a flashpoint in many parts of the country as falling student test scores have ignited debate about how the subject is being taught in schools.

In Ontario, the number of children meeting provincial standards has dipped to a record low. Fewer than half of Grade 6 pupils – 49 per cent – met the provincial standard in math in 2017-18, a decline of one percentage point from the previous year and down five percentage points since 2014.


Several math professors and parents say provincial curriculums fail to teach the basics, and instead encourage problem-solving and expressing ideas in a variety of ways.

But experts and politicians are also looking at teachers' math skills and training.

A recent Globe and Mail analysis found the amount of classroom time university training programs spent on math for elementary school teachers across the country varies from 36 hours to more than 100 hours. Further, the programs focus primarily on learning how to teach the subject.

The Ontario government is holding consultations on a variety of topics in education, including math. Ms. Thompson had promised in July that the government would "restore restore proven methods of teaching the fundamentals” and examine teacher training.

Several universities have started introducing courses that teach student teachers math basics. This fall, for example, student teachers at OISE will be taking a 24-hour mandatory course on fractions, percentages and other basic arithmetic on top of 54 hours focusing on math pedagogy and research. This comes after OISE researchers administered a Grade 6 and 7 level math test to new students and found that about one-third scored at or below 70 per cent, the provincial standard.

And at Lakehead University, teacher candidates take a math-competency exam on numeracy basics, including fractions and volumes. The university has found that about one in three people in the first year fail the tests and must take a course to understand math concepts.


They can take the test three more times, but must pass it to graduate.

Ms. Thompson also announced on Thursday that the government is proposing legislative amendments that would require the discipline committees of the Ontario College of Teachers and the College of Early Childhood Educators to revoke an educator’s certificate for any act of sexual abuse on a student or child.

How about requiring all new Members of Provincial Parliament (MPPs) to take a political science test?

Or better yet, require all candidates for MPPs, councillors, mayors, trustees, etc. to take a political science test before even running for the job?

See link.
 
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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Don't we have a surplus of postsecondary spots in the province?

And personally, at least for Ryerson, as a grad, I thought it was a terrible plan. Ryerson has spent hundreds of millions developing its campus downtown. They've developed an identity and brand around being downtown. "Our MBA program is closest to Bay Street. Our journalism program is close to all the news orgs. Our radio and television arts program is close to all the media stations." Etc. Brampton was a poor fit for them IMO.

And I'm not sure if Ryerson was a great for for a Brampton. Even with the joint program with Sheridan. They'd have been better off with something like a York U satellite campus.

I'm not sure, but that would be surprising.

There is generally a high demand for post secondary education in Ontario, especially in the GTA. It's hard to envision a net drop in the long term.
 

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