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Pregnant woman dies in stabbing - one murder or two?

Marriage is legal between two persons. Marriage, like murder, is defined in the law, not in the dictionary.

The OED is the most comprehensive English dictionary, what with its word origins, alternate spellings, archaic words and what you will. It's an informative read.
 
from law.com


murder
n. the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.
 
surprised so many of you are getting caught up in debating the legal definitions instead of making a statement about the nature of the crime committed... one of the great failings of our society really... too many technocrats, not enough humans.

I agree.
 
American websites don't define the law either. Thankfully.


but the Oxford English Dictionary does?


wouldn't the Canadian Oxford Dictionary be more accurate?

do me a favor, can you find me the OED definitions for...

-murder

-person(s)

-human(s)

?
 
I think it would be more useful for you to take a look at the Criminal Code definitions of murder and human being. They're the definitions that matter.
 
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/C-46///en



Killing unborn child in act of birth

238. (1) Every one who causes the death, in the act of birth, of any child that has not become a human being, in such a manner that, if the child were a human being, he would be guilty of murder, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.


When child becomes human being

223. (1) A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother, whether or not

(a) it has breathed;

(b) it has an independent circulation; or

(c) the navel string is severed.


--------------------------

so it has to be extracted from the body in a living state. that's too bad. this is horrible and people shouldn't be allowed to get away with doing something this sick.
 
I agree. You could techincally poison the baby while the mother is sleeping via a needle (unlikely of course) and get away with it.
 
What do you mean by get away with it? You would clearly be charged with aggravated assault, and be punished quite severely. How is this alleged murderer getting away with anything? He is being charged with first degree murder, the most severe crime that exists, with a minimum penalty of life imprisonment.
 
What do you mean by get away with it? You would clearly be charged with aggravated assault, and be punished quite severely. How is this alleged murderer getting away with anything? He is being charged with first degree murder, the most severe crime that exists, with a minimum penalty of life imprisonment.

Aggravated assault for killing an unborn child isn't a very serious charge.

As for this case, of course he's being charged with first degree murder for allegedly killing the mother...not the child.
 
Prometheus, what is the point you are trying to make?

they shouldn't use the legality of abortion to slap in the face women who have their fetuses killed against their will.

we as a society can make distinctions between killing in wartime and killing in peacetime. why can't we make distinctions in cases like this? if you don't want to call it murder because of legal definition, fine, but at least there should be a punishment similar to that of murder.
 
they shouldn't use the legality of abortion to slap in the face women who have their fetuses killed against their will.

we as a society can make distinctions between killing in wartime and killing in peacetime. why can't we make distinctions in cases like this? if you don't want to call it murder because of legal definition, fine, but at least there should be a punishment similar to that of murder.

But who is using the legality of abortion to slap the face of women who have their fetuses killed? If you ascribe personhood to a fetus, and allow the charge of murder to stand, then it can (and will) serve as grounds for argument against abortion. At the time of this murder, the victim was a pregnant woman, and not a woman with a baby in her arms. That is how she is being defined here.

The act of killing in war can have great distinctions from who is being killed in war. I think you are making reference to the "who" part, here.
 
AP, it's foetus, not feotus.

There's no easy answer as to when a foetus becomes an individual person. Surely, most of us would recognise that the legal definition of not being human until more than halfway outside the mother as being arbitrary and even silly. How is a neonate any different from a foetus the day before it exits the uterus other than attachment by the umbilical cord? But where do you draw the line? Is the clump of cells a few days after fertilisation an individual human? What about when there's a beating heart? A nervous system? Ability to feel pain? When exactly does it become human? I don't think there's an answer.
 

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