Pregnant woman dies in stabbing - one murder or two?

[BobBob]

One murder, but a particularly heinous one considering the unborn baby and the extreme vulnerability of the pregnant mother-to-be. Maximum penalties should be sought.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

One and eight-ninths?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I don't think we want to import the legal "reasoning" of the anti-abortion nuts south of the border.

we don't have to import anything. if we as a society can't make a distinction between a planned abortion and what happened here, we are truly fucked.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Well, yes we would have to import it. You can't be charged with murder if you haven't killed a person. We'd have to overturn a thousand years of common law to change that. Personally, I think BobBob has the right approach.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Well, yes we would have to import it. You can't be charged with murder if you haven't killed a person. We'd have to overturn a thousand years of common law to change that. Personally, I think BobBob has the right approach.

i see where you're getting. this is more of an issue about terminology.

the guy should be charged with killing a fetus against the will of the mother and those charges should carry a penalty equal to murder.

this way the christ-cons don't have to worry about the double standard, not that double standards have ever bothered them before.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Well, he should obviously be charged for killing a woman. The fact that she was pregnant at the time should be considered when imposing a penalty, but not a separate charge in itself.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Well, he should obviously be charged for killing a woman. The fact that she was pregnant at the time should be considered when imposing a penalty, but not a separate charge in itself.

but why? he took away something she wanted.



if we were to legalize doctor assisted suicide, would that make murder (against personal will) legal?


if we were to legalize prostitution and tax it like anything else, would people that shag for free have to apply for tax exempt status like the churches because the do it for charity? if they were married, would that exempt status be void because its for personal gain?

is this why we have the status quo? because people can't tell the difference?


is that a tomato or potato? ah, fuck it. too much thinking involved. they're both round like so they must be the same.

 

[syn]

Personally, I think a fetus is a living person. The fact that it's unborn and can't defend or speak for itself should not make someone exempt from the murder of the child if it happens to die along with the mother.

 

[Urban Shocker]

One.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

there are two sides at work here, those for abortions and those against it. both sides provide a biased view, turning this into a political debate....

"we can't say this is a murder because they'll take away abortion rights"

"we must say this is murder in order to make abortions illegal"


special circumstances demand special practices. we do it all the time.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

from websters:


murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

person: HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL

human: of, relating to, or characteristic of humans

humans:a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)


abortion is lawful, killing someones fetus against their will is unlawful therefore: this situation equals murder

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Well, no. A feotus isn't a person. Only killing a person is murder.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Well, no. A feotus isn't a person. Only killing a person is murder.

not according to websters.

murder is the unlawful killing of a homo sapien. would the killing of this homo sapien, in fetal form be legal?


this is the language we all agreed on.

 

[Hydrogen]

Well, he should obviously be charged for killing a woman. The fact that she was pregnant at the time should be considered when imposing a penalty, but not a separate charge in itself.

I think this is the most reasonable approach. At the time of her death, she was a woman who was pregnant, and not a mother with a baby in her arms. She was the individual.

This is not a case equal to that of abortion, doctor-assisted suicide, legalizing prostitution or any other issue that has only the most extreme and vague measure of association.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

from websters:


murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

person: HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL

human: of, relating to, or characteristic of humans

humans:a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)


abortion is lawful, killing someones fetus against their will is unlawful therefore: this situation equals murder

so is the dictionary wrong?

for those who fear that saying this to be a murder will somehow challenge abortion laws, it could spark an outcry from those that want justice which could backfire and end up challenging abortion.