Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[TheTigerMaster]

Is this a joke?

It's very clear that Hudak is going to gut transit. So I can only assume you are supporting the NDP.

What is the NDP going to build that the Liberals won't? (probably an easier question to answer, if the NDP would actually release an election platform).

Is the NDP even going to build anything? All I've heard for Horwath is that she's against most of the transit taxes. Since that means there won't be a way to pay for the transit I'm assuming that they'll be little new transit under an NDP gov't.

The NDP opposition to transit taxes is one of the main reasons they've lost my support. Taxes to build transit for "working class" (I hate that term) people to get to home/school/work is the kind of thing that the NDP should be supporting. Instead they've taken a right-wing populist stance ("no new taxes") regarding the issue.

It seems to me that Horwath's NDP is more concerned with getting into power than they are with implementing liberal, progressive policies.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

When I first asked about it a few days ago, neither I nor anyone else I was discussing it with could find/source/link other citations of it other than the NP article.....clealy there are others and I had not bothered to redo my search since the first time it was discussed a few pages back.

It is, what we used to call in the pre-internet age, a mistake.

No problem, I think you're a great poster. We all make mistakes. It happens. Really it's tim's fault for continuing not to be clear.

 

[nfitz]

All I've heard for Horwath is that he's against most of the transit taxes.

Is he? It's hard to believe one has heard that little about Horwath!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Is he? It's hard to believe one has heard that little about Horwath!

He? Damn it I meant she. I'm either sexist, stupid or didn't press the "s" key hard enough. I'd like to think it's one of the latter two

 

[MrsNesbitt]

I agree with him that LCBO and OLG should be privatized, and that the OPA should be completely eliminated.

Have your been to the posh law-firm like OPA office at Adelaide/York? They do nothing except signing horrible agreements for ratepayers.

The Green Energy Act probably kills 2 jobs for every job it fictitiously created.

No public service in this province should be privatized. Privatization has failed again and again and the PCs are wilfully turning a blind eye to that to promote their own twisted agendas.

Why would the province give up revenues from the LCBO and OLG? Why would they give control of those agencies regulating vices to private business? If a motivation is to allow more relaxed sales of alcohol (with the LCBO) then split the whole damn thing up, not just hand it over for a single lump sum.

Ironic that you complain about the OPA, considering its formation out of the breakup of the former Ontario Hydro was an act of the government of Mike Harris, which was itself motivated to eventually privatize parts of the former Ontario Hydro.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Is the NDP even going to build anything? All I've heard for Horwath is that she's against most of the transit taxes. Since that means there won't be a way to pay for the transit I'm assuming that they'll be little new transit under an NDP gov't.

The NDP opposition to transit taxes is one of the main reasons they've lost my support. Taxes to build transit for "working class" (I hate that term) people to get to home/school/work is the kind of thing that the NDP should be supporting. Instead they've taken a right-wing populist stance ("no new taxes") regarding the issue.

It seems to me that Horwath's NDP is more concerned with getting into power than they are with implementing liberal, progressive policies.

I get a lot of people that I talk to these days who don't read beyond the NDP label and still hold this illusion that Horwath will be some progressive saviour of the "working class". She's politicking above everything else, and it's sickening.

 

[agoraflaneur]

In don't think we'd go into a recession. But these cuts aren't what we need right now. We need to invest in our infrastructure to stay competitive. And that goes beyond roads & transit to include things like education

+1, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't find efficiencies within the agencies that Hudak has criticized. However, as usual, he just says he is going to slash and burn instead of creating a coherent and nuanced approach to make government as efficient and effective as possible. I do wish the liberals would do more of that, but compared to everyone else they certainly do look nuanced right now.

Is the NDP even going to build anything? All I've heard for Horwath is that she's against most of the transit taxes. Since that means there won't be a way to pay for the transit I'm assuming that they'll be little new transit under an NDP gov't.

The NDP opposition to transit taxes is one of the main reasons they've lost my support. Taxes to build transit for "working class" (I hate that term) people to get to home/school/work is the kind of thing that the NDP should be supporting. Instead they've taken a right-wing populist stance ("no new taxes") regarding the issue.

It seems to me that Horwath's NDP is more concerned with getting into power than they are with implementing liberal, progressive policies.

++1 Exactly how I feel. Ever since Layton went down the populist anti-tax route all the while criticizing the liberals as their main enemy I have been very annoyed by the NDP. This election was called even though the liberal budget leans very left and is influenced by Horwath's policies. The day the NDP stopped making transit one of their main issues was the beginning of their end IMO. They often sound like the whining of the right/Fordist in their "don't make the average working man pay" rhetoric.

 

[Johnny Au]

Horwath is not even a real NDPer.

 

[nfitz]

Horwath is not even a real NDPer.

Hmm ... tell me more. I don't really know much about her ... but their policies and comments for the last few years seem very odd.

 

[typezed]

Horwath is not even a real NDPer.

The NDP has various roots. My parents usually voted NDP, because they were "for the working man". Because for our family, the union helped provide a decent life. But chemical plants, warehouses and assembly lines are hardly dominated by progressive thought. I don't know that those people have much in common with the NDP of the Annex or Parkdale. Based on her populist direction, Horwath seems more in line with the small-town unionized industrial workers and is seeking their vote. Many of those people, if they managed to spend their entire adult lives in the factory, maybe retiring with good pensions, are now well-off, secure, and want to keep what they have. If they're not going to vote NDP, many would probably be more receptive to Hudak's harsh prescription than they are to the Liberals.

 

[Johnny Au]

The NDP has various roots. My parents usually voted NDP, because they were "for the working man". Because for our family, the union helped provide a decent life. But chemical plants, warehouses and assembly lines are hardly dominated by progressive thought. I don't know that those people have much in common with the NDP of the Annex or Parkdale. Based on her populist direction, Howarth seems more in line with the small-town unionized industrial workers and is seeking their vote. Many of those people, if they managed to spend their entire adult lives in the factory, maybe retiring with good pensions, are now well-off, secure, and want to keep what they have. If they're not going to vote NDP, many would probably be more receptive to Hudak's harsh prescription than they are to the Liberals.

What do you expect from someone who represents a mainly industrial riding in Steeltown?

 

[typezed]

What do you expect from someone who represents a mainly industrial riding in Steeltown?

Don't expect anything really - I don't vote NDP, and certainly wouldn't this round no matter how weary the Liberals might be. But representing the views of a mainly industrial riding in Hamilton seems to me exactly what we'd expect a 'real NDPer' to be doing.

 

[JKDM]

This battle between downtown progressives and lunch pail progressives is really quite fascinating.

I think Horvath speaks more to lunch pail progressives much more than downtown leftists do ... and that bothers them.

For some reason, they think their party has been taken over by folks who aren't real progressives to begin with.

It's really quite strange.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This battle between downtown progressives and lunch pail progressives is really quite fascinating.

I think Horvath speaks more to lunch pail progressives much more than downtown leftists do ... and that bothers them.

It's probably because so much of what she says sounds identical to what Rob Ford and other conservatives has been saying. They both spew anti tax, anti transit, anti gov't waste rhetoric. Even Rob Ford has taken what is arguably a more progressive stance than the NDP RE transit issues. At least Ford supports some transit taxes on "taxpayers". I haven't heard Horwath support any revenue tools beyond increased corporate taxes. The fact that Ford Bros. have a potentially more progressive stance than the NDP regarding public transit disturbs me. I suppose this similarity in rhetoric is because both Ford and Horvath are targeting "lunch pail" workers.

Anyways I think that Horvath would have been smart to go after "downtown progressives" by not dropping the ball with the transit issue. She could have just said "we recognize the importance of public transit to working class families and support The Big Move". The NDP would have come across as the party that can work with others to achieve progressive goals. And this would have satisfied both the downtown and lunch pail progressives. The downtowners get their transit, and the lunchpailers get transit to help their "working class" family get to and from work/school. I guarantee that if she did that NDP support within the City of Toronto would not have been totally destroyed.

Anyways I suppose it's for the best that the NDP dropped the ball. It means that the PCs are less likely to win due to vote splitting. Hmm... maybe this "failure" was actually intentional, to stop the PCs (haha I doubt it)

 

[JKDM]

It's probably because so much of what she says sounds identical to what Rob Ford and other conservatives has been saying. They both spew anti tax, anti transit, anti gov't waste rhetoric. Even Rob Ford has taken what is arguably a more progressive stance than the NDP RE transit issues. At least Ford supports some transit taxes on "taxpayers". I haven't heard Horwath support any revenue tools beyond increased corporate taxes. The fact that Ford Bros. have a potentially more progressive stance than the NDP regarding public transit disturbs me. I suppose this similarity in rhetoric is because both Ford and Horvath are targeting "lunch pail" workers.

Anyways I think that Horvath would have been smart to go after "downtown progressives" by not dropping the ball with the transit issue. She could have just said "we recognize the importance of public transit to working class families and support The Big Move". The NDP would have come across as the party that can work with others to achieve progressive goals. And this would have satisfied both the downtown and lunch pail progressives. The downtowners get their transit, and the lunchpailers get transit to help their "working class" family get to and from work/school. I guarantee that if she did that NDP support within the City of Toronto would not have been totally destroyed.

Anyways I suppose it's for the best that the NDP dropped the ball. It means that the PCs are less likely to win due to vote splitting. Hmm... maybe this "failure" was actually intentional, to stop the PCs (haha I doubt it)

I truly believe Horvath has hit on a winner when she says she'll carefully looks after the money of all Ontarians.

All three levels of government has "gravy" that can be cut. We all know this.

Rob Ford ran on that and won ... and with good reason.

That kind of message rightfully resonates with people like me.