Ontario Liberals and Transit

[W. K. Lis]

Think of all that electricity that hundreds of electric trains will need.

Fortunately AECL has a proposal in place to put portable Candus on each train, so not only will the trains be pollution-free with no stinky diesels. But there won't be any of that eye-sore wiring everywhere. Win-win! You can see how this extra $billions will be worth it!

Ontario may end up buying electricity from Quebec at a cheaper price than building new electricity generating plants. See link.

The study says increasing energy trade between the provinces could generate about $12 billion over 20 years for Quebec, while Ontario could save the same amount over the same period by cutting down on its nuclear-energy production.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hiking...both-provinces-report-1.1910044#ixzz37XWCgYa4
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It says the provinces would benefit by setting a price of 5.7 cents per kWh, nearly double what Hydro-Quebec currently earns for its electricity exports. That price, the study adds, would be lower than the estimated 8.3 cents per kWh it would cost to generate electricity from a refurbished Darlington Nuclear station.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hiking...both-provinces-report-1.1910044#ixzz37XWKPo1M
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[T-Bor]

Not nearly.

I think that would be $2B in addition to the $2 from the city and $2 from the feds. The $6B could go way farther than pape to downtown

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Ontario may end up buying electricity from Quebec at a cheaper price than building new electricity generating plants. See link.

It might not be a bad thing to support interprovincial trade - though importing energy by defaults limits the long-term ability of the province to be energy self-sufficient. Maybe a mix of both?

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think that would be $2B in addition to the $2 from the city and $2 from the feds. The $6B could go way farther than pape to downtown

And given the projected ridership, DRL might be a relatively good case for some kind of P3 arrangement - though I would be very, very with sizing the capacity aspect lest we get another Canada Line.

AoD

 

[muller877]

Did you include the cost of a new Candu?

The province is now really happy with the cancellation of the gas plant in 'Sauga. Now they have the real estate to build the nuclear plant where there is demand and right beside the busiest rail corridor!

Every part of the province outside of the GTA....keep your garbage and pollution for yourself.

Toronto....NIMBY. Blah Blah Blah...NIMBY.

Liberals....Where is this Missisauga? Is it past Bathurst Street? Brillant idea...we will use the $15B of transit funding for the non-GTA on this power plant to fund the construction. In 4 years...duh...I wonder why the Non-GTA is not voting for us

lol

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think that would be $2B in addition to the $2 from the city and $2 from the feds. The $6B could go way farther than pape to downtown

I would hope that could get Dundas West to Pape.

 

[nfitz]

I would hope that could get Dundas West to Pape.

Well, it's about 13 km. So if they can do it for $300 million/km it's about $4 billion. Toss an extra $100 million/km because it's probably more expensive downtown, and it's still only $5.2 billion

Pape to University is less than 6 km. At $300 million/km you could build it for $1.8 billion. A good first start.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, it's about 13 km. So if they can do it for $300 million/km it's about $4 billion. Toss an extra $100 million/km because it's probably more expensive downtown, and it's still only $5.2 billion

Pape to University is less than 6 km. At $300 million/km you could build it for $1.8 billion. A good first start.

That's probably low - the interchange stations will quite expensive - plus they will have to run underneath YUS since those are already very close to the surface, and there will likely be significant engineering challenges relating to running the line underneath the Don. It's a do it once but do it right project.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

That's probably low - the interchange stations will quite expensive - plus they will have to run underneath YUS since those are already very close to the surface, and there will likely be significant engineering challenges relating to running the line underneath the Don. It's a do it once but do it right project.

$400 million/km is probably more reasonable. But even it it escalates to $500 million/km it's only $3 billion to build from University to Pape.

Part of the advantage here is distance. We're talking less than 6 km. The Danforth extension to Sheppard is 7.6 km.

Surely that money would be better spent on a DRL than a Danforth extension.

 

[BurlOak]

And given the projected ridership, DRL might be a relatively good case for some kind of P3 arrangement - though I would be very, very with sizing the capacity aspect lest we get another Canada Line.

AoD

Sizing the capacity had nothing to do with P3. The capacity was given to the Contractor and he delivered. What it does show is that an analysis needs to be done to determine the probabilities that demand will be exceeded, and how much marginal cost would be needed to provide the extra capacity.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well, it's about 13 km. So if they can do it for $300 million/km it's about $4 billion. Toss an extra $100 million/km because it's probably more expensive downtown, and it's still only $5.2 billion

Pape to University is less than 6 km. At $300 million/km you could build it for $1.8 billion. A good first start.

Really there is no reason why we can't get to Eglinton on both ends, but it won't happen. A better way to get support DRL would have been to introduce a Mt Dennis Science Centre line.

 

[ehlow]

We're not talking about tunnelling the west side are we? There's the Georgetown GO corridor that we're currently spending huge amounts of money upgrading capacity & grade separating that already goes from Rexdale, down Weston Rd connecting to Mt Dennis station at Eglinton, Dundas West station at Bloor and into downtown. Seems like a waste to duplicate that with a subway.

 

[ksun]

It might not be a bad thing to support interprovincial trade - though importing energy by defaults limits the long-term ability of the province to be energy self-sufficient. Maybe a mix of both?

AoD

Ontario doesn't have to be energy self-sufficient. Being energy sufficient is not necessarily a good thing, sometimes it means expensive rate hurting the long term growth of the province.
If we can buy power for 3 cents a kwh from Quebec or Manitoba, why should we build 6 cents/kwh nuclear and 20 cents/kwh solar plants? Buying energy from Quebec is not that different from buy orange and mango from California and the Caribbean's.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We're not talking about tunnelling the west side are we? There's the Georgetown GO corridor that we're currently spending huge amounts of money upgrading capacity & grade separating that already goes from Rexdale, down Weston Rd connecting to Mt Dennis station at Eglinton, Dundas West station at Bloor and into downtown. Seems like a waste to duplicate that with a subway.

There's no Mt Dennis Station on the UPX. The UPX will also cost 20 dollars a ride. Different Markets.

 

[nfitz]

Really there is no reason why we can't get to Eglinton on both ends, but it won't happen. A better way to get support DRL would have been to introduce a Mt Dennis Science Centre.

No reason? Pape to downtown is 6 km. Danforth to Eglinton is 4 km.

Your talking about 8 km of subway. That's a lot of $. Particularly in the west, with no major trip generators, and a parallel rail corridor. Pape to Eglinton is a better sell, given that it's going to be a challenge to do surface LRT south of O'Connor, a Don crossing will cost similar for subway or surface LRT, and there is a huge population at Thornecliffe/Flemingdon, and then a short distance to Eglinton. But I can't see anything in the West north of Bloor in my lifetime. I'm not even sure the numbers are there to justify Dundas West to Queen/King+Dufferin (they might be ... would be nice to see some numbers).

We're not talking about tunnelling the west side are we? There's the Georgetown GO corridor that we're currently spending huge amounts of money upgrading capacity & grade separating that already goes from Rexdale, down Weston Rd connecting to Mt Dennis station at Eglinton, Dundas West station at Bloor and into downtown. Seems like a waste to duplicate that with a subway.

You don't want to waste the main artery of medium and long-distance transit (GO to Milton, Georgetown, Orangeville, Barrie, Bolton and High Speed Rail to Kitchener points west) with 2 dedicated tracks of subway line. Ultimately, you don't even want to parallel it. You'd want to go up another route. I suspect for now you just stop DRL at GO station in the Dufferin Street area.