OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[AKS]

The CNE is already an indoor/outdoor event. During that 3 week period the entire Ex grounds and vast majority of the Ex buildings are in use for the CNE, or CNE related, activities.

The CNE is by nature a limited time event. Any largish scale development on the Ex grounds is gonna impair their ability to put on their annual 3 week event or, the new "year round" uses will have to shut downfor 3 weeks a year.

I am not sure what to think when I read comments about developing the Ex grounds. I wonder if the people suggesting it realize they are,essentially, advocating for the end of the CNE or if, even, at this point in Toronto's development if they care.

So in order to keep the 3 week event, CNE should be an empty ground for the rest of the 49 weeks? Does that even make sense?

Why don't you use a Canadian example? The largest indoor amusement park in the world: Galaxyland at West Edmonton Mall!

I haven't been to Edmonton so I wouldn't know. But I think an indoor amusement park would be a good idea in Toronto. People would object to having it on the west don lands, so there's no other place to put it except the EX/OP lands.

 

[TOareaFan]

So in order to keep the 3 week event, CNE should be an empty ground for the rest of the 49 weeks? Does that even make sense?.

I am not advocating one way or the other.....but since it is a 133 year tradition/heritage event and the Ex grounds kinda get their name from the fair itself, I thought it was worth a discussion to see if people put developing site before it's historical use or if they had not thought of the implications.

 

[Markham VIP]

I am not advocating one way or the other.....but since it is a 133 year tradition/heritage event and the Ex grounds kinda get their name from the fair itself, I thought it was worth a discussion to see if people put developing site before it's historical use or if they had not thought of the implications.

Being from Markham, I am not as familiar with the CNE grounds as many of you may be....so this might seem like a dumb question I don't know.......but why is the CNE only open for 3 weeks a year? Why can't it be open all summer? And in winter...why don't they have winter festivals and stuff like that? Why only 3 weeks?

 

[coolcanadian]

So in order to keep the 3 week event, CNE should be an empty ground for the rest of the 49 weeks? Does that even make sense?



I haven't been to Edmonton so I wouldn't know. But I think an indoor amusement park would be a good idea in Toronto. People would object to having it on the west don lands, so there's no other place to put it except the EX/OP lands.

Because the West Don Lands and the EX/OP are the only areas available for development in Toronto? I think that an indoor amusement park could go anywhere. Maybe it could be part of the casino entertainment complex wherever that goes. Maybe it could have a retractable roof for the summer I do not think it should replace the Ex fair though.

 

[TOareaFan]

Being from Markham, I am not as familiar with the CNE grounds as many of you may be....so this might seem like a dumb question I don't know.......but why is the CNE only open for 3 weeks a year? Why can't it be open all summer? And in winter...why don't they have winter festivals and stuff like that? Why only 3 weeks?

There are other (lots actually) events that take place there and there is never a time the grounds are closed. What some people object to is that the CNE itself has led to a land use that some deem as sub-optimal.

 

[Markham VIP]

There are other (lots actually) events that take place there and there is never a time the grounds are closed. What some people object to is that the CNE itself has led to a land use that some deem as sub-optimal.

Ya I understand that the grounds itself is used for other events throughout the year. Let me rephrase my question....why is the FAIR/FESTIVAL only open for three weeks? It really is the only competition, in terms of amusement parks, for Wonderland. The problem is that opening weekend is too busy so I don't go, then next thing I know it's closing weekend and it's gonna be too busy so I don't go. Why isn't it open all summer?

 

[TOareaFan]

Ya I understand that the grounds itself is used for other events throughout the year. Let me rephrase my question....why is the FAIR/FESTIVAL only open for three weeks? It really is the only competition, in terms of amusement parks, for Wonderland. The problem is that opening weekend is too busy so I don't go, then next thing I know it's closing weekend and it's gonna be too busy so I don't go. Why isn't it open all summer?

The CNE is Toronto's annual fair. Most communuties have events like this (I believe there is a Markham fair.....I know there is one here in Brampton). It is not a "wonderland"....it is a temporary community event.....a coming together.....often to mark the end of summer...beginning of fall.

https://www.theex.com/about-the-cne/our-past-present/

 

[Markham VIP]

The CNE is Toronto's annual fair. Most communuties have events like this (I believe there is a Markham fair.....I know there is one here in Brampton). It is not a "wonderland"....it is a temporary community event.....a coming together.....often to mark the end of summer...beginning of fall.

https://www.theex.com/about-the-cne/our-past-present/

Ah...I get it.
Yes there is a Markham Fair.
Thanks for answering my question.
Seems to me though...temporary community event or not, if the business model works then roll with it.......
If it generates money for three weeks of the summer, then 3 months of the summer would be approx. 4 times the revenue (all else being equal)
Just my opinion.......

 

[AKS]

Because the West Don Lands and the EX/OP are the only areas available for development in Toronto? I think that an indoor amusement park could go anywhere. Maybe it could be part of the casino entertainment complex wherever that goes. Maybe it could have a retractable roof for the summer I do not think it should replace the Ex fair though.

Can it really go anywhere? You want it in Etobicoke? Markham? Mississauga? Downtown is more easily accessible and it's closer to a lot of other entertainment complexes. OP got closed because the model isn't working. It was losing money. So we should try something different that can make profit or at least sustain itself.

As for the fair being 3 weeks. I don't see why it can't share space with other entertainment complexes with part of it being outside and part of it being inside when conferences / exhibits aren't held. They could even have art / cultural exhibits put there every so often. Or farmers market, etc.

 

[coolcanadian]

Can it really go anywhere? You want it in Etobicoke? Markham? Mississauga? Downtown is more easily accessible and it's closer to a lot of other entertainment complexes. OP got closed because the model isn't working. It was losing money. So we should try something different that can make profit or at least sustain itself.

As for the fair being 3 weeks. I don't see why it can't share space with other entertainment complexes with part of it being outside and part of it being inside when conferences / exhibits aren't held. They could even have art / cultural exhibits put there every so often. Or farmers market, etc.

Look at where Wonderland is!! If they build an amazing year-round amusement park, it should now replace the ex. It could go downtown, but keep the ex.

 

[AKS]

Look at where Wonderland is!! If they build an amazing year-round amusement park, it should now replace the ex. It could go downtown, but keep the ex.

Wonderland is far to access. People go there because there's no other choices for big amusement parks. They have zero competition. Frankly, I hardly go to Wonderland because it's so far away. Also admission prices are pretty steep for huge long line ups.

But what you're saying sounds contradictory. "if they build an amazing year-round amusement park, it should now replace the ex." Next you say "it could go downtown but keep the ex." You think the ex should be replaced, but ex kept?

Anyhow, I am suggesting an entertainment complex on the OP/Ex area isn't too bad because that might create a year round usage and bring added attraction to the city. Also an indoor amusement park would be good for families to enjoy year round and easily accessible by transit. In the winter, there's hardly any places for children to go play. It's cold so people stay indoors. The most children can enjoy is probably skating, skiing or tobogganing in the city.

 

[TOareaFan]

Anyhow, I am suggesting an entertainment complex on the OP/Ex area isn't too bad because that might create a year round usage and bring added attraction to the city. Also an indoor amusement park would be good for families to enjoy year round and easily accessible by transit. In the winter, there's hardly any places for children to go play. It's cold so people stay indoors. The most children can enjoy is probably skating, skiing or tobogganing in the city.

I am gonna take one more stab at this....not sure I am doing a good job of explaining it.

There are two comonents....the grounds and buildings themselves...I'll call these the EX. Then there is the annual fair which i'll label as CNE.

The grounds do get used, to varying levels all year round. These are the same grounds that host the Queen Elizabeth Theatre, BMO Field, Ricoh/Horse Palance, Enbridge, Allstream Centre, etc. These buildings have year round usage from sporting events to conventions, trade shows, concerts, The Royal Winter Fair, the car race and the CNE. The level of development of the EX is limited as long as the CNE exists because for that period of time (I have been calling it 3 weeks for ease but it is a bit less than that 17 - 18 days) as the CNE takes up all of those lands/buildings and restricts the use of them for other purposes.

The CNE is far more than just a midway....that is part of it, sure, but there is a lot more going on.

Any "year round use" is (IMO) the end of the CNE (which may be fine but it is seldom part of the calls for redevelopment) as I can't imagine someone investing money in a year round use that has to vacate for 17 days at the end of August.

Again, it may be that the people of Toronto are ok with the CNE ending (I doubt that) but it never seems to be factored into the calls to make better use of the lands at the EX. (that is the best way I can explain my question)

 

[Torontovibe]

A lot more goes on than that. The CNE grounds also hold festivals like the Chin Picnic and the largest Indian festival in the world, outside of India. It also has lots of different consumer shows, sporting events (car races) and also conventions year round. A new conference centre was just opened about a year ago. Also a new hotel, with more conference space, is also planned. When you add up all the different events, it's actually quite impressive. The CNE is doing quite well. It mainly needs to fix the ugly parking lot situation and it will be fine. (by putting parking underground and parkland on top)

 

[coolcanadian]

Wonderland is far to access. People go there because there's no other choices for big amusement parks. They have zero competition. Frankly, I hardly go to Wonderland because it's so far away. Also admission prices are pretty steep for huge long line ups.

But what you're saying sounds contradictory. "if they build an amazing year-round amusement park, it should now replace the ex." Next you say "it could go downtown but keep the ex." You think the ex should be replaced, but ex kept?

Anyhow, I am suggesting an entertainment complex on the OP/Ex area isn't too bad because that might create a year round usage and bring added attraction to the city. Also an indoor amusement park would be good for families to enjoy year round and easily accessible by transit. In the winter, there's hardly any places for children to go play. It's cold so people stay indoors. The most children can enjoy is probably skating, skiing or tobogganing in the city.

I meant "not" replace the ex not "now", sorry typo

Anyway, I think we should keep the Ex as the fair that it is. It has its own flavour. If it was open all year, it would not be as busy..

Ontario Place is a completely different story. I would love to see something huge here. We could build an indoor park here and still keep the CNE fair. They are different.

What I would love to see is a huge multi-use entertainment complex. This could include an indoor amusement park, resorts, shows, shops, and a casino. Maybe a huge ferris wheel and a monorail Seriously though.

Why not? Build a huge ferris wheel. Make it an indoor/outdoor place that could be used year round. Have a huge resort , shows and casino. I would love it!! It would be great for everyone!

 

[Automation Gallery]

IWhy not? Build a huge ferris wheel. Make it an indoor/outdoor place that could be used year round. Have a huge resort , shows and casino. I would love it!! It would be great for everyone!

I agree, but this is the wrong forum to be talking about such a vision...many here would rather see a great square, fountains, parkland and housing.