OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[coolcanadian]

I agree, but this is the wrong forum to be talking about such a vision...many here would rather see a great square, fountains, parkland and housing.

Its weird. We have a great square in Toronto. We have fountains, tons of parkland, and housing.

Maybe we could get an indoor/outdoor waterpark.

The roof opens in the Summer!!

Or this one in Germany!! Largest indoor water park!

Truth is, I think this could be a part of the entertainment complex. Thats what nobody understands!! With $6 billion, we could get this!! Really, stop hating on casinos! If we got a huge indoor water park, a resort, shops, rides, restaurants, shows, nightclubs, etc., then who really cares if there is a casino attached? Seriously!! It is not going to create gambling addictions. Those who have will gamble in Niagara or Rama no matter what.

 

[jje1000]

Why a fake beach when there are real, neglected ones 5-10 minutes away?

 

[coolcanadian]

Why a fake beach when there are real, neglected ones 5-10 minutes away?

Because it will have a water park, will be heated, and can be used in the winter. Im just saying. In fact look at my first picture of the indoor beach. Theres a real beach behind it

 

[adma]

Truth is, I think this could be a part of the entertainment complex. Thats what nobody understands!! With $6 billion, we could get this!! Really, stop hating on casinos! If we got a huge indoor water park, a resort, shops, rides, restaurants, shows, nightclubs, etc., then who really cares if there is a casino attached? Seriously!! It is not going to create gambling addictions. Those who have will gamble in Niagara or Rama no matter what.

Honestly, kiddo: next to you, Doug Ford is Richard Florida.

 

[sixrings]

i dont really understand why this is being compared with a trailer trash idea.... I enjoy Douglas Snow but it really is too small and too busy. The one thing I like about west edminton mall is not the store but the indoor ammusement park, the indoor hockey rink, and the indoor water park. Im not saying that these things need to go on a prime piece of land but they would be welcomed especially considering our cold climate. Im just saying that some people like to be indoors and have entertainment outside of a Mall... These types of attractions offer that... But that doesnt result in them being attended only by trailer trash... Thats insulting..

 

[AKS]

I agree, but this is the wrong forum to be talking about such a vision...many here would rather see a great square, fountains, parkland and housing.

That should go on the west donlands. They're building housing and parkland. Might as well add square and fountains. I love those too.

 

[coolcanadian]

You really don't understand. Thats the kind of thing you can expect! It's not just a freaking casino. The odds of rides and watersides here are actually quite likely, along side a resort casino. Why is that a bad idea? Is Toronto not good enough for it? then leave the city. Seriously there is nothing wrong with big ideas. In fact, I never really understood the problem with the Port Lands Vision. Having something like that at OP; a place with rids, hotels, a casino, ferris wheel, waterpark, marina, etc., sounds pretty cool to me. OP is supposed to be a huge attraction for Toronto. What do you want there. Please answer.

 

[AKS]

You really don't understand. Thats the kind of thing you can expect! It's not just a freaking casino. The odds of rides and watersides here are actually quite likely, along side a resort casino. Why is that a bad idea? Is Toronto not good enough for it? then leave the city. Seriously there is nothing wrong with big ideas.

I thought you were referring to building it on OP/Ex land. If you're thinking of having that built on the west donlands, it's not going to happen. There's been environmental assessments and everything done on it already. People want to keep with the plan. Ford wanted to change the plans and got bombarded with hate mail. I don't suggest going that route.

 

[coolcanadian]

I thought you were referring to building it on OP/Ex land. If you're thinking of having that built on the west donlands, it's not going to happen. There's been environmental assessments and everything done on it already. People want to keep with the plan. Ford wanted to change the plans and got bombarded with hate mail. I don't suggest going that route.

I am talking about OP/Ex or anywhere in general. I'm just saying what kinds of things can go along with a casino resort complex. You all see to think that it has to just be a boring, tacky casino. This can be a huge complex with an amusement park or whatever. They would not necessarily just turn OP into a casino. It could have an amusement park, resort and casino, etc.

 

[ttk77]

Why anyone would want to place a self contained, indoor, inward facing, entertainment complex on prime waterfront real-estate is beyond me.

Why not reconfigure the entire area? Merge OP and the Ex together, keep the cinesphere, the pods and maybe the waterpark, but turn the rest of OP and the surrounding parking lots into a huge open cobbled plaza lined with trees. Add in an open air market and cafes with waterfront patios for most of the summer, but much of the midway for the Ex can be moved here for those three weeks at the end of the summer. MGM is then given lease to build their complex on the existing Ex grounds under the condition that they build it to fit in with the surrounding public lands and also agree to take on the expense of maintaining those public lands.

 

[Grimace]

That first picture above, where is that?

Why not reconfigure the entire area? Merge OP and the Ex together, keep the cinesphere, the pods and maybe the waterpark, but turn the rest of OP and the surrounding parking lots into a huge open cobbled plaza lined with trees. Add in an open air market and cafes with waterfront patios for most of the summer, but much of the midway for the Ex can be moved here for those three weeks at the end of the summer. MGM is then given lease to build their complex on the existing Ex grounds under the condition that they build it to fit in with the surrounding public lands and also agree to take on the expense of maintaining those public lands.

I think this is basically right, and should be done casino or no casino. There is a lot that goes on at the Ex grounds, but they are underutilized and have tremendous potential. The CNE remains a worthwhile fair and attendance still makes it a meaningful even though it is significantly lower than past decades, but a serious investment in the grounds could vastly improve the fair's offerings and overall landscape while offering additional year-round uses. A large plaza (cobbled or not), with trees, a fountain, etc., ringed with cafes, touristy shops, hotel(s), cinemas, a Torono museum?, even a casino, could be open throughout the year with buskers, jazz shows, christmas fair, etc., but play host to the midway during the Ex. This would complement the good to great current facilities including the Direct Energy Centre, Automotive (Allstream) Buidling, Ricoh Centre, Liberty Grand, Medievel Times and Horse Palace. I would not be sad to see the Better Living Centre and Queen Elizabeth Building go, but perhaps there is a heritage significance I am not attuned to.

There may be good arguments against this (and I'm not sure how it would get around the Prince's Gates) but one idea I had was to bring Lakeshore right through British Columbia/Prince's Blvd (this would require knocking down the Better Living Centre) and eliminating it from its current path between the Ex and OP. This would allow the Ex and OP to connect completely, and the large plaza could include parts of the OP's current parking lots.

 

[Hipster Duck]

i dont really understand why this is being compared with a trailer trash idea.... I enjoy Douglas Snow but it really is too small and too busy. The one thing I like about west edminton mall is not the store but the indoor ammusement park, the indoor hockey rink, and the indoor water park. Im not saying that these things need to go on a prime piece of land but they would be welcomed especially considering our cold climate. Im just saying that some people like to be indoors and have entertainment outside of a Mall... These types of attractions offer that... But that doesnt result in them being attended only by trailer trash... Thats insulting..

I agree that it's not a trailer trash idea, and shouldn't be followed by an ad hominem attack, but I am skeptical about how viable an indoor water park would be. We have places like Great Wolf Lodge in Niagara Falls, and while I'm sure it does okay for itself, I haven't heard about it being a huge success either.

 

[ShonTron]

Toronto has two full-sized waterparks - Wild Water Kingdom (the original) and Splashworks at Wonderland, both of which are about the same size. Indoor waterparks are by definition family destinations. Ontario Place had a rather good selection of family-oriented waterpark attractions, and look at it now.

I agree that indoor waterparks and indoor amusements in general, are real crapshoots. Around here, there's Woodbine Centre and Great Wolf Lodge. Apart from that, not much. West Edmonton Mall is a rare place where it works, but you have a market of 1,000,000 city residents, a large catchment area and a long-established reputation as a tourist attraction in a city where there's not that much to do. You would have to build a really giant dome or metal box to make an indoor attraction work like that, which I don't really want to see downtown.

Back to the main topic, the CNE grounds might work well as for a casino if Toronto was indeed stuck with one. But it would really have to be one mere part of a new master plan for OP/Ex grounds (imagining hotel, family-oriented entertainment and restaurants, more trade space on the CNE grounds itself, perhaps a rebuilt Flyer, maybe even that danged Ferris wheel for the CNE side, melding with a mature nightlife district and waterfront park angle for OP). But I bet OLG will be looking for a quick build with lots of parking, not what I would like to see for the waterfront.

 

[coolcanadian]

Toronto has two full-sized waterparks - Wild Water Kingdom (the original) and Splashworks at Wonderland, both of which are about the same size. Indoor waterparks are by definition family destinations. Ontario Place had a rather good selection of family-oriented waterpark attractions, and look at it now.

I agree that indoor waterparks and indoor amusements in general, are real crapshoots. Around here, there's Woodbine Centre and Great Wolf Lodge. Apart from that, not much. West Edmonton Mall is a rare place where it works, but you have a market of 1,000,000 city residents, a large catchment area and a long-established reputation as a tourist attraction in a city where there's not that much to do. You would have to build a really giant dome or metal box to make an indoor attraction work like that, which I don't really want to see downtown.

Back to the main topic, the CNE grounds might work well as for a casino if Toronto was indeed stuck with one. But it would really have to be one mere part of a new master plan for OP/Ex grounds (imagining hotel, family-oriented entertainment and restaurants, more trade space on the CNE grounds itself, perhaps a rebuilt Flyer, maybe even that danged Ferris wheel for the CNE side, melding with a mature nightlife district and waterfront park angle for OP). But I bet OLG will be looking for a quick build with lots of parking, not what I would like to see for the waterfront.

Hi. Let me start off by saying Wild Water Kingdom is shit!! It's rundown and not very nice. Wonderland's waterpark is good, and we will probably see it expanded soon.

I actually now agree that an indoor amusement park does not need to be on the waterfront. It could go anywhere and do just as well, as long as its close to the city.

I definitely think they should merge OP and The Ex. Get rid of the above ground parking lots and put it underground, or at least build a structure for cars.

They should make it an amazing place! They could build some good permanent rides (the flyer, as you said, or something even bigger), and even make the worlds largest ferris wheel!! I don't mean to describe Niagara Falls by saying this, but I can see an outdoor place with shops, restaurants, wax museums, nightclubs, theatres, clothing stores, and fun places. Restaurants like Planet Hollywood or Cheesecake Factory, a permanent Cirque Du Soleil show in a custom theatre. A resort with a casino. The whole place could be fun! Think Downtown Disney/Universal City Walk/LA Live but way better. An arcade, fireworks show, a museum. I think it could work well. It would be different than downtown Toronto. Its just a fun place to go. Have entertainers, and people walking around.

Outdoor stage with acts, a Marina, fountains. Maybe skating in the winter. What do you think?

 

[sixrings]

I think "Woodbine"