OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[Markham VIP]

When did olg say they ever wanted it in Markham? I thought Markham just came up as a option from forumers when realizing it would compliment the new Markham arena. Mgm simply said they wanted to be downtown and not at woodbine but I never heard them express other options outside the waterfront.

OLG has not said anything yet....publically.
Markham came up as an option the same day Toronto became an option......on the day OLG announced it would be building a new casino in the "GTA".
So to correct your statement....people on this forum only realized Markham was an option when forumers (Me) posted about it.

The OLG says it's building a casino in the GTA.....and the Toronto media jumps all over it....
But contrary to popular belief, GTA does not mean City of Toronto...GTA means Halton, Peel, Toronto, York, Durham.

And yes.....it would compliment the new arena wouldn't it......
You have 20,000 people leaving an arena...wouldn't it be nice having a casino right next door for them to go to?
Am I the only one who thinks that's a good idea?????

 

[taal]

Stadium nearby likely provides no help whatsoever ... potentially a hindrance if the transportation options in the area cannot handle the extra capacity.


You need to understand the customer base ... funny enough there was a study about this recently in terms of Casino's. Anyway, there are very few, and I'm not sure what the official term is but there is one, spontaneous customers of a casino, and even less so for a Stadium of course.

Simply put, people make the decision to visit a casino ahead of time and generally that is the destination.


You'll have very few people go to watch a show and then spontaneously decide to hit up a casino afterwords. Hit up restaurants in the area, sure, that's very spontaneous.


If we think a blank slate development is optimal I'd say VCC is best and Markham potentially next.

I downgrade Markham because I don't think the local tranporation options can handle it well considering a very high percentage of Casino vistors will be driving, almost no mater what other options exist.

 

[Markham VIP]

Stadium nearby likely provides no help whatsoever ... potentially a hindrance if the transportation options in the area cannot handle the extra capacity.

You need to understand the customer base ... funny enough there was a study about this recently in terms of Casino's. Anyway, there are very few, and I'm not sure what the official term is but there is one, spontaneous customers of a casino, and even less so for a Stadium of course.

Simply put, people make the decision to visit a casino ahead of time and generally that is the destination.

You'll have very few people go to watch a show and then hit up a casino afterwords. Hit up restaurants in the area, sure, that's very spontaneous.

Many performers who have concerts in Toronto also have a date scheduled to perform at Casino Rama.
To my understanding, casinos host many shows and events....that being said, I would think that having an arena next door would be ideal.

In addition, I agree with you that people tend to not be spontaneous when it come to casinos....however, if you knew you were going to a concert/NHL game with a casino next door, I'm sure many people would infact plan ahead. Why can't people watch a hockey game then go play some slots and have a few more drinks before calling it a night?

How many times have you been to a hockey game and had such a great time that when it was over you didn't want to go home? You walk outside and you and your friends look at each other and say, "what do you want to do now?"

 

[coolcanadian]

I think that if this casino was to be built in Markham, it would't be that amazing of a development. It would be a casino.

If it was built in Toronto, it could be so much more. Tourists don't goto Markham. If this was a huge entertainment complex, as it very well could be, it would benefit Toronto.

 

[Markham VIP]

I think that if this casino was to be built in Markham, it would't be that amazing of a development. It would be a casino.

If it was built in Toronto, it could be so much more. Tourists don't goto Markham. If this was a huge entertainment complex, as it very well could be, it would benefit Toronto.

You're right....the casino itself would not be an amazing development....but it would be located in an amazing development (i.e. Downtown Markham).

The OLG is looking to change its business model. The purpose of the new GTA casino is NOT to increase Toronto tourism. Instead, the purpose of the new GTA casino is to bring a facility closer to the people who play them (i.e. GTA residents/chinese people).

This casino is for the people of the GTA, it is not for Toronto tourism.

 

[sixrings]

I still can't see why woodbine isn't a good option. It's close to highways, a airport, it has plenty of land, and the area is in desperate need of retail and entertainment now that woodbine Centre has become a epic failure. Looking from a satellite view from Google the race track takes up a crazy amount of space. I can't see how either Markham or Vaughan would be willing to give up that space. Sure we could build a casino somewhere else and hope that the race track manages to survive on its own but I think that's unrealistic. Either both of them are going to work and be together or a casino is built somewhere else which will essentially kill woodbine. I'm not a gambler but I do like the horse racing and would be sad to see that be the thing we lose.

 

[coolcanadian]

You're right....the casino itself would not be an amazing development....but it would be located in an amazing development (i.e. Downtown Markham).

The OLG is looking to change its business model. The purpose of the new GTA casino is NOT to increase Toronto tourism. Instead, the purpose of the new GTA casino is to bring a facility closer to the people who play them (i.e. GTA residents/chinese people).

This casino is for the people of the GTA, it is not for Toronto tourism.

No offence, but saying that is kind of stupid. First of all, if MGM wants to work with OLG to make an amazing, multi-billion-dollar casino-mega-resort entertainment complex, as they have said they have, then we should definitely consider that as a probably option.

A beautiful casino and entertainment complex will attract tourists, but it will also be used by people within the GTA. Look at Ontario Place or the ROM or Wonderland. They are all tourist attraction that host many visitors to the city, however citizens from the GTA still use them. OP as in when it was used in its prime.

You are pretty much saying the people of the GTA don't need something magnificent.

Lets not build an awesome beautiful casino resort with entertainment options that will attract tourists and be used by residents. Instead, lets build a new Rama closer to the GTA.

Yes, downtown Markham is great. However, this could be something amazing. It could be part of the new OP/Ex (look at what I posted previously).

When MGM, Caesar's and other mega companies are interested in building a grand complex that will attract tourism and be used by residents, then we don't say "lets build our own Rama"...

 

[gabe]

Stadium nearby likely provides no help whatsoever ... potentially a hindrance if the transportation options in the area cannot handle the extra capacity.


You need to understand the customer base ... funny enough there was a study about this recently in terms of Casino's. Anyway, there are very few, and I'm not sure what the official term is but there is one, spontaneous customers of a casino, and even less so for a Stadium of course.

Simply put, people make the decision to visit a casino ahead of time and generally that is the destination.


You'll have very few people go to watch a show and then spontaneously decide to hit up a casino afterwords. Hit up restaurants in the area, sure, that's very spontaneous.

The complete opposite happens in Detroit and Niagara Falls. After the Tigers game in Detroit last week, the casino got increasingly busy. Same thing happened when the Alice Cooper concert led out at the Fallsview. The concert goers poured into the casino instead of going straight home.

 

[taal]

The complete opposite happens in Detroit and Niagara Falls. After the Tigers game in Detroit last week, the casino got increasingly busy. Same thing happened when the Alice Cooper concert led out at the Fallsview. The concert goers poured into the casino instead of going straight home.

Trying to find the study again, it was regarding the planning of a casino somewhere else (don't think it was North America) that a friend pointed me again. The study was in terms of how much was spent at the casino per visit, so it's possible they were just implying that anyone who spills over is very unlikely to spend much at all.


I'm not saying you wouldn't see any, but its hard for me to believe a ton of people would spill over ?


I'm sure no one would spill over after a concert / game to another concert, but I know you're implying just to play period.

 

[Markham VIP]

No offence, but saying that is kind of stupid. First of all, if MGM wants to work with OLG to make an amazing, multi-billion-dollar casino-mega-resort entertainment complex, as they have said they have, then we should definitely consider that as a probably option.

A beautiful casino and entertainment complex will attract tourists, but it will also be used by people within the GTA. Look at Ontario Place or the ROM or Wonderland. They are all tourist attraction that host many visitors to the city, however citizens from the GTA still use them. OP as in when it was used in its prime.

You are pretty much saying the people of the GTA don't need something magnificent.

Lets not build an awesome beautiful casino resort with entertainment options that will attract tourists and be used by residents. Instead, lets build a new Rama closer to the GTA.

Yes, downtown Markham is great. However, this could be something amazing. It could be part of the new OP/Ex (look at what I posted previously).

When MGM, Caesar's and other mega companies are interested in building a grand complex that will attract tourism and be used by residents, then we don't say "lets build our own Rama"...

First, the OLG announced it would build a casino in the GTA before MGM expressed interest.
Does anyone here really believe that they didn't know exactly where in the GTA they would build it before they made the announcement?

Secondly, back to one of the points I have been stressing, do you think a casino in Toronto will lead to a significant increase in tourism? Sure, existing tourists will go to the casino resort, but do you think MORE people will visit Toronto because of the resort/casino. If not, do you think that the local Toronto businesses who already depend on the tourist dollar would want MGM or Cesears stealing their customers? If the monster resort is built, it is said that the casino will only be 5%-10% of the total resort....so what will the other 90%-95% be?

Lastly, this is a point I have also stressed, Toronto is already developed....so can't the other municipalities is the GTA get some arenas and casinos to help with their development too?

Here is a quote from Rod Phillips (President and CEO of OLG) when asked about the possible location of the casino:
“It should fit into the broader opportunities within a region, around what a local government wants to accomplish. One of the things we haven’t done as well as we could have in the past is be aligned to the local municipalities own development expectations. So if there are parts of the GTA or a municipality where there is an interest in developing that place…you know this isn’t something that’s in people’s backyards, it’s going to be something that’s going to be in a location where it makes sense, where a municipality is trying to develop a portion of that area”.

 

[Markham VIP]

The complete opposite happens in Detroit and Niagara Falls. After the Tigers game in Detroit last week, the casino got increasingly busy. Same thing happened when the Alice Cooper concert led out at the Fallsview. The concert goers poured into the casino instead of going straight home.

EXACTLY!!!!!....it's only logical to see an increase in people at the casino after the concert/game lets out.
Anyone who doubts that will happen is not thinking logically.
The casino and arena will complement each other quite well.

 

[coolcanadian]

Something like a casino in OP would help spark the start of its redevelopment. It would provide a luxury hotel, convention space, and the entire park could be the entertainment complex. MGM could build something like that, and that would increase tourism.

THIS IS NOT JUST A CASINO if built by MGM or another huge company for billions. It would attract tourists and be much more than a lame casino out in Markham.

Markham shouldn't have a casino IMO.

 

[Markham VIP]

Something like a casino in OP would help spark the start of its redevelopment. It would provide a luxury hotel, convention space, and the entire park could be the entertainment complex. MGM could build something like that, and that would increase tourism.

THIS IS NOT JUST A CASINO if built by MGM or another huge company for billions. It would attract tourists and be much more than a lame casino out in Markham.

Markham shouldn't have a casino IMO.

A monster casino resort would suck the life out of Toronto tourism just like it has in so many other cities across North America.
Toronto shouldn't have a monster casino resort.....IMO

 

[coolcanadian]

If built in Toronto for billions as part of a complex we could see something like this

this

or this

instead of something boring we could see a huge complex. I can see this as part of the redevelopment of the Ex/OP.

I'm not saying make OP into a casino. Im saying make it something amazing and include a casino.

Many huge companies, like MGM and Caesar's, will be competing to make the best complex and have it built. It will be great.

In fact, I just found this. The BC Place is building a casino and hotel as part of its refurbishment.

It is slated to become Vancouver's new entertainment epicentre. It will include two major hotels, 5 restaurants and a casino. It will provide thousands of jobs, and be a major driver for the economy and tourism.

It is not going to ruin Vancouver. It will generate about $130 million in gaming revenues for the province each year. The new facility will be run by Las Vegas-based Paragon Gaming.

$450 Million construction cost.

The design looks pretty cool, and I would say its a positive addition to the city.

It looks pretty cool, and its only at a cost of $450 million. We could potentially have something much better, with a cost of 6 billion. It could be such a huge complex, with much more than a casino.

 

[coolcanadian]

A monster casino resort would suck the life out of Toronto tourism just like it has in so many other cities across North America.
Toronto shouldn't have a monster casino resort.....IMO

cool, so we disagree. Would OP also suck the life out of Toronto tourism. You are just saying that to disagree with me. A huge complex with many uses, including a casino, will not suck the life out of Toronto tourism. That is.